Gamesmanship - what's your view?

[sev112]

As said, most of tehse things have been done by teh pros, so prehaps it's acceptable if you were the first one to do it ?

Anyway, also, when people start saying the "watch you dont go out of bounds" etc etc then i give them a smug smile , focus on my shot, relaxed knowing that they know that their little tricks dont work.

So where do we stand in 4 balls of playing the shorter putt of the 2 to keep the opponent with a shortish putt for a hlaf or win waiting ? That's gamesmanship but seems ok to me

 

[Alex1975]

......Me and player X are in a comp together. I see he hits the ball a long way, I make a bit of a fuss about it and boost him up a little, he will try to hit the ball harder and harder. You going to call that cheating or that I am a ****?

That would be a perfect example Alex, sorry to say it, but I'd look at you and think you were being a tit though

Just don't understand or see the need for it??

Lets not play together then pal, your clearly a bit easy to upset if a complement can do it!!! you tit

 

[Robobum]

.....So where do we stand in 4 balls of playing the shorter putt of the 2 to keep the opponent with a shortish putt for a hlaf or win waiting ? That's gamesmanship but seems ok to me

It's covered in the rules, not gamesmanship.

 

[Robobum]

......Me and player X are in a comp together. I see he hits the ball a long way, I make a bit of a fuss about it and boost him up a little, he will try to hit the ball harder and harder. You going to call that cheating or that I am a ****?

That would be a perfect example Alex, sorry to say it, but I'd look at you and think you were being a tit though

Just don't understand or see the need for it??

Lets not play together then pal, your clearly a bit easy to upset if a complement can do it!!! you tit

Woah, put your handbag away!!! Read it again......I'd think the person in your "hypothetical example" was being a tit, it wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference to me.

 

[Bacardibatman]

yep another biggie post sry

@Bacardibatman

I have never played or seen anyone try and put anyone off there shot, that is not what this post is about, its not about cheating its about gamesmanship. I did try and explain this but here is an example.

you say above "I have never played or seen anyone try and put anyone off there shot"

what is the aim when whats said (below)

Me and player X are in a comp together. I see he hits the ball a long way, I make a bit of a fuss about it and boost him up a little, he will try to hit the ball harder and harder.

trying to get in their head & influence them and put them off their shot!
gamesmanship - not illegal ,but in the right spirit?

(wouldnt bother me as im playing distances to the course not trying to hit it further)

&
what i said/meant if everyone then does that sort of thing the next step will be full blown cheating
(making deliberate noise to gain an advantage etc, if everyone decides to gamesmanship ,someone will try to gain more of an advantage)


ive played many matches representing my club back when i was a member of a club
ive never tried to distract someone from their game

i'd try and help everyone if they came to our club if they wanted the help (which id ask do they know the course and need any help/want me to tell them where things/hazzards are)

if they said yes id tell them where things are on the course because theyre not familiar ,i wouldnt if they said no in case it did negatively influence them

but
I certainly wouldnt say things like "don't turn your hands over on this one" or "watch out for the big bunker left" or "there's loads of crap to the right of the green if you block it".

id just factually state where things were

are ppl that in need to win at any cost they'll do whatever,
or lack the confidence in their own golf skill to beat their opponent fair and square

personally id rather lose

ive no problem with banter on a course between friends just playing (two of my regular playing partners do so big time), but in a comp its a tactic thats out of order IMO


like i said
if ppl go partake in gamesmanship ,then you cant blame ppl for thinking negatively of you if it does affect them

couple definition of gamesmanship

"Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win a game, such as golf, tennis or snooker. "Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end."



Gamesmanship occurs when a player attempts to profit from an unfair advantage, or when he disguises an unjust act done on purpose; or when he commits any unsporting act executed in a sly way contrary to 'the spirit of the game'; or when he resorts to psychological intimidation against his opponent - these are just a few flavours of the sour forms of gamesmanship.


personally i think these say it all really - questionable

but,


just because the person in question says its ok doesnt make it right

in the same way as what i/others say doesnt make it right eiter

everyone has their opinion on it

MINE IS its not in the spirit of the game! -that doesnt necessarily make me right on the matter

 

[Alex1975]

......Me and player X are in a comp together. I see he hits the ball a long way, I make a bit of a fuss about it and boost him up a little, he will try to hit the ball harder and harder. You going to call that cheating or that I am a ****?

That would be a perfect example Alex, sorry to say it, but I'd look at you and think you were being a tit though

Just don't understand or see the need for it??

Lets not play together then pal, your clearly a bit easy to upset if a complement can do it!!! you tit

Woah, put your handbag away!!! Read it again......I'd think the person in your "hypothetical example" was being a tit, it wouldn't make the blindest bit of difference to me.

Sorry, I was a little rude there, but I kinda thought you were too, anyways... Player X was actualy me and this was something that was done to me, it worked and I did try and hit out. It was not till later that I worked the guys game out, and I may well have been wrong, it may have just been a nice thing to say.

Thats my point really, we all do it, even if you say you dont, even if you dont know you do, our language or body language does it for us. If I had a stronger head that day it would not have worked, but you live and learn.

 

[richart]

JustOne is the king of gamesmanship......
You're standing over your ball ready to play your approach into the 18th green. One up and needing at least a half for the match it's great to hear him say "don't turn your hands over on this one" or "watch out for the big bunker left" or "there's loads of crap to the right of the green if you block it".


You simply answer this by rifling a superbly struck 5 wood to within about 8 feet of the pin..........and then 3 putt.

I was shocked with James.

Why didn't he mention the out of bounds left and long.

Going to have a forfeit bucket for anyone three putting the 18th Smiffy. Do you want to send your £1 now ?

 

[Fyldewhite]

Thats my point really, we all do it, even if you say you dont, even if you dont know you do, our language or body language does it for us. If I had a stronger head that day it would not have worked, but you live and learn.

I've read this thread with interest and I think the above sums it up absolutely. Golf is a mental game and you spend 4 hours out there with your opponent with very little of that time actually hitting shots. Everything you do and say can and will affect your opponent. It may be an innocent remark about virtually anything that gets in their head and disturbs the concentration on the next shot. The only way to guarantee you don't do this is to say nothing which in itself would obviously get in their head.

It's up to each player to deal with whatever is said and block it out. If you can't do that then you are not very good at the "mental side" of the game IMO. The best players can do this and to a large degree I think this is the reason some players are great match players when others aren't. Every pro and certainly every Ryder Cup player past or present will be able to relate stories about gamesmanship. It IS part of the game, but don't confuse it with breaching ettiquette deliberately (key jangling etc) it's much more subtle than that.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The only chance most people have to put me off my game is on the tee. Other than that I tend to find I'm at least 50 yards away in the rorugh or on another fairway and can't hear them talk let alone jingle keys and change.

To be honest most of the guys I play with at my club are sound and may have the odd bit of banter in a frinedly roll up match but won't go too far. In a competitive match or against another club I prefer to focus on the job in hand. The odd conceded putt here and not given there always works for me. I'm pretty thick skinned (and this place has thickened it even more) and so I can take the odd bit of barracking if a guy wants to try and give it out. I'll just try harder.

 

[Smiffy]

I played a 9 handicapped mate of mine in a skins game at Panmure once. £1.00 a hole.
I was £3.00 up after 3 and cooking on gas.
Stood on the 4th tee, which was quite a tight driving hole with gorse bushes all down the left hand side and as I put the peg in the ground he said to me "You don't want to do what I did here this morning. I came right over the top and put it in that gorse up the left".....
I just gave him a grin, put my ball down, concentrated really hard and came right over the top and put it in the gorse up the left.

 

[viscount17]

gamesmanship is a fact of life in every competitive sport at every level - it's just that as you get into the more rarefied atmosphere of pro games it becomes more subtle.

actually you could scrub out 'in every competitive sport' because it goes on all the time everywhere - but is at its most evident between people of the same sex.

 

[percy_layer]

In my opinion:

In a game with mates, some friendly wind ups and banter is fine and adds to the fun of the game.

In a competition, it is unacceptable.

 

[EZprophet]

In my opinion it is alright to say whatever you want to your opponent, up until the time when he steps up to the ball, or starts his pre-shot routine.

Pointing out a water hazard to your opponent as you're walking up to the tee is fine, doing it while he is standing over the ball is not.

To me, the difference is that when you do it while he is over the ball, you are literally physically distracting him from the shot, similar to moving in his backswing or shaking your keys. What you say is actually irrelivent, its the fact that you are trying to distract him by talking that is the problem.

When you point out a hazard or ask him about a swing flaw while walking between shots, you are trying to put him off his game, but in a different way. You are not physically distracting him but trying to get in his head, which in my opinion is absolutely fine.

For the record I actually enjoy the social side of golf, even in competetive matches, so while I will throw out the occasional bit of trash talk banter, I don't ever say anything with the intention of putting someone off.

Oh and jangling keys, moving in backswing etc. is obviously straight up cheating. Not giving/giving putts and slowing down play is obviously fine... but annoying!

 

[JustOne]

I rarely talk whilst playing golf..................










Smiffy uses gamesmanship purely by turning up dressed as a golfer!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Not something I get involved with or take much notice of. I'll have a bit of banter in a friendly game with people I know but in a comp I just get on with my game. If the other guy feels the need to try to put me off it tells me they don't have the confidence to let their clubs do the talking.

 

[Doh]

In my opinion:

In a game with mates, some friendly wind ups and banter is fine and adds to the fun of the game.

In a competition, it is unacceptable.

What Charlie said