Finishing a short put

[dejf]

Hi,

please help me understand a couple of rules (most likely relevant rules are 16-1 and 14-1). A player puts and misses the cup and the ball goes a foot beyond. The player comes towards the ball, but as the final distance is very short, he stops on the opposite side of the hole and hits the ball with his putter towards the hole, which is also towards himself. Is this stroke allowed? Does it matter how his feet are positioned (e.g. standing astride of what would be a prolongation of the line of the putt)?

Picture: http://sketchtoy.com/67680156
On the left - the original putt
On the right - finishing a short put while the hole is between the player and the ball

 

[louise_a]

It allowed but tap ins like that are often missed.

 

[rulefan]

There is no penalty if the stance is inadvertently taken on or astride the line of putt (or an extension of that line behind the ball) or is taken to avoid standing on another player's line of putt or prospective line of putt..

The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole

 

[dejf]

Tx louise_a!

There is no penalty if the stance is inadvertently taken on or astride the line of putt (or an extension of that line behind the ball) or is taken to avoid standing on another player's line of putt or prospective line of putt..

The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole

So ... ? Does it mean you do not see a reason for a penalty there?

 

[woody69]

Tx louise_a!




So ... ? Does it mean you do not see a reason for a penalty there?

Why do you think there would be a penalty?

 

[dejf]

Why do you think there would be a penalty?

I don't. My FC from yesterday's game claimed that and I just try to obtain some extra info on the topic. So, I've found those two possibly relevant rules and I could not find any reason for a penalty, therefore I'm asking for an interpretation of other people to see if I understand the rules correctly.

I did dispute that claim and I did try to get a supported (with reference to the actual rule) reasoning from him, but without success But the fact that he can't support his claim does not make the claim wrong (and he seems to have a very good knowledge of rules in many non-obvious situations that other players would make a mistake in), so I want to be sure by asking you guys ...

 

[atticusfinch]

What the rules do not prohibit is allowed.

R.14-1a: The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned. This does not specify the direction of the stroke, so as long as it is fairly struck you did not break the rule.

Def: The "line of putt" is the line that the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke on the putting green. Except with respect to Rule 16-1e, the line of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of the intended line. The line of putt does not extend beyond the hole. In your case line of putt started at the ball and stopped at the hole. As you were on the opposite side from the ball the line did not extend to where you were standing so you could not stand astride it.

A rule some people believe applies to your situation is the "continuous putting rule." This mythical rule says a player is entitled to hole his ball whether he is away or not as a "continuation" of his putt.

In match play there is no exception to tule 10-1b, you must always play in turn unless your opponent concedes the putt, in which case you should not putt but pick up.

R. 22-2: In stroke play, a player required to lift his ball may play first rather than lift the ball. Note this only applies if the player is "required" to lift his ball. Using the rule to justify any continuation of putting is not correct. (I think this rule is waived by some professional tours so it appears to allow "continuous putting" but like many rules the tour does not adhere strictly to the ROG and many people only learn the rules from TV.)

 

[cliveb]

... and he seems to have a very good knowledge of rules in many non-obvious situations that other players would make a mistake in ...

What makes you believe that? Does he have a history of being correct about obscure rules?

IME, there are quite a few people who've been playing the game for a long time who make very confident statements about rules which turn out to be wrong. (If they happen to be well-respected long-standing members of the club, that makes it doubly difficult to challenge them).

 

[guest100718]

I don't. My FC from yesterday's game claimed that and I just try to obtain some extra info on the topic. So, I've found those two possibly relevant rules and I could not find any reason for a penalty, therefore I'm asking for an interpretation of other people to see if I understand the rules correctly.

I did dispute that claim and I did try to get a supported (with reference to the actual rule) reasoning from him, but without success But the fact that he can't support his claim does not make the claim wrong (and he seems to have a very good knowledge of rules in many non-obvious situations that other players would make a mistake in), so I want to be sure by asking you guys ...

i'd say that probably inst true... next time you stick a chip stone dead, hold the flag in one hand and tap the putt with the other.. see if you get another penalty..

 

[dejf]

What makes you believe that? Does he have a history of being correct about obscure rules?

IME, there are quite a few people who've been playing the game for a long time who make very confident statements about rules which turn out to be wrong. (If they happen to be well-respected long-standing members of the club, that makes it doubly difficult to challenge them).

Yes, we've been playing for some time within a larger group and several times he was explaining rules to other guys in a consistent way to my knowledge, so I now believe that he knows the rules well. He also is a long standing respected member, but that is not the point, he is a very easygoing character. There is no problem to dispute any claims with this guy, and so I did. He knows a lot, rarely makes a mistake, but no one is perfect. The fact that usually he is correct made me ask here - to be sure.

 

[rulefan]

Tx louise_a!




So ... ? Does it mean you do not see a reason for a penalty there?

It does.

Players often miss the point about the non extension of the line of putt.

 

[dejf]

Tx then!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

i'd say that probably inst true... next time you stick a chip stone dead, hold the flag in one hand and tap the putt with the other.. see if you get another penalty..

Don't forget to lift the flag out of the hole though

 

[delc]

It does.

Players often miss the point about the non extension of the line of putt.

It's in Rule 16-1e, which was designed to ban croquet style putting between the legs, as at one point used by Sam Snead.

 

[duncan mackie]

It's in Rule 16-1e, which was designed to ban croquet style putting between the legs, as at one point used by Sam Snead.

No, as others have posted the answer to the question posed lies in the definition of line of putt, and the exception to 16-1e.

16-1e itself is the rule that gave rise to the question asked.

 

[delc]

No, as others have posted the answer to the question posed lies in the definition of line of putt, and the exception to 16-1e.

16-1e itself is the rule that gave rise to the question asked.

The exceptions in Rule 16-1e answer the question. If you stand astride the line on the other side of the hole to tap a putt in there is no penalty. The line stops at the hole.

 

[rulefan]

The exceptions in Rule 16-1e answer the question. If you stand astride the line on the other side of the hole to tap a putt in there is no penalty. The line stops at the hole.

I thought that was sorted out very early in the thread.

 

[atticusfinch]

I thought that was sorted out very early in the thread.

Where's the fun in that?