Fakes, clones & the buggers who sell them

[Parmo]

Afternoon All,
I hope you all had a great weekend and enjoyed the golf as much as myself?

Anyway where can I start, I bought some Cleveland CG12s wedges around xmas from Flea bay and I not 100% sure of.. eermm.. how can I say this, their authenticity. When I got them out of the box they where covered and I mean covered in stickers and the heads where too, so much so that the glue took the polish off !!! I kind of knew deep down they where fakes and over the past few weeks I have played with them and they are not real bad Dunlop style but not the "zip" I was meant to feel. I could be wrong and these three irons that I bartered for £116 inc p+p (org £130 & p+p) are totally legit, but the doubt has crept in... (so a trip down to AG and a vokey when the wife doesn't know is in order)

I know the old saying "if the deal is to good to be true, it usually is" but us golfers, bored at work hunting a deal get sucked in so often.

Does anyone else have a fake/clone golf equipment story to tell? or does anyone have any tips to stay safe (except never buy clubs on flea bay as there are no bargains just mugs like me) ?

 

[medwayjon]

Somebody cam into the range to check the authenticity of some R7 irons they bought on ebay from the states. They turned out to be expensive fakes.

There is a distinct difference between clones and snides. Clones generally don't claim to be the original item and will not have the branding of their "equivilent" item. These are perfectly legit.

Fakes however are exactly that, cheap copies, made poorly with crap materials at minimum cost and designed to rip-off the unsuspecting punter. People who knowingly sell fakes are scum in my eyes and should be rectally impaled on their shoddy merchandise. People work hard for their money and people getting ripped-off after shelling out their hard-earned disgusts me to the core.

 

[madandra]

Of all the leading brands it seems Cleveland are by far the most copies out there. I have heard of 5 people who have bought dodgy drivers and wedges in the last 2 years. My bug bare is the lack of policing coming from Cleveland. I would never buy a wedge from ebay due to the increased chances of being sold a pup. Take it to a pro under the pretence of getting the loft and lie checked and sneak the question in that you got them from .... insert name of reputable dealer here .... and wondered if the were authentic?

 

[Parmo]

I read on one of the Ebay forums that some fella had a problem with his Cleveland driver and sent it to them, it then took them 3 months to realise the club for a fake and then kept it. The dude was gutted, nearly £200 on a driver for an extra tenner or so at the time he could of bought for real, people buy online because they either want a deal or are busy during the day.

 

[Parmo]

Cheers madandra, I will but to be honest as a beginner I dont know the difference and it seems to be ok and I do get a fair bit of spin, maybe its real but 3 for £100 is deffo a clone.

Jon, You are right there are clones and fakes, the amount of business in the states that will make you a driver or club by using the same shaft, head and grip as say Callaway FTi but with another name is unreal, they look decent and by all accounts they are the same club just without the label on. Then there are china fakes, which ebay seems to be full of.

 

[ianmc]

there are also a lot of callaway fakes outthere a friend of mine was offered a set of callaway x-20s irons and woods all for 299 with a free bag all sounded too good to be true and i advised him against it.there is a site which deals in clones golfripoff.com i was disgusted but its above board cos there not claiming to be the real thing.ian mc

 

[GB72]

Part of the problem is that teh companies have no interest if you report a suspected fake. If they offered a small reward and then sent trading standards round to the people concerned then this epidemic could be stamped out.

Many of the people selling fakes are easy to spot with a bit of common sense. For example you see people with no connection to the golf industry with 10 top of the range drivers to sell. This in itself should se the alarm bells ringing.

On top of that they often have little or no feedback. What there is is normally given and received by a small group of people who set up transaction so as the members of the group can artificially boost their positive feedbacks. The transactions are often small or barred from being viewed.

Other than that, the old addage of deals being too good to be true applies. Even with a fairly sizeable markup and no store costs, I would be surprised if anyone could sell the latest kit at more than 20% below the cost of the likes of AG and make a profit so I avoid deals at prices that low.

The other option is to go for second hand gear, far less likely to be fake as you can see pictures of the actual club etc. There are many golfers, me included, who have bought gear and sold it on after only a couple of months and that is where the real bargains are to be found.

If the forum ever gets a sale/swap section then the need for ebay will hopefully disappear.

 

[GB72]

I have actually owned a couple of clones bought from 14clubs.com. The makes have become known in their own right. I had an Integra I-Drive which was based on the square callaway. My wife has a cloned Nike SQ 3 wood and, again, not a bad club but these are not fakes. They never professed to be the original clubs merely based on the design.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

In my opinion it is back to that old adage of try before you buy or if not use a reputable online golf site (greg nicholson, golfonline, discount golf AG etc)

Most pro's will be happy to try an do a deal providing you are not trying to take the p**s and some do offer trade ins.

In my mind once I have a shop or online facility (not just golf but across the board, shopping, gardening etc) I tend to stick with them until

a) they let me down
b) I can get something much cheaper from somewhere else (and they are legitimate/reliable)
c) the item is out of stock and I need it asap

Beware my forum friends. All that glitters is not gold

 

[Mr_Top_Shot]

Heard a few stories recently about fake Ping clubs on ebay. Some guy went to our local range hit a few balls and the head snapped clean off of his driver. Needless to say he was gutted. My opinion/advice would be to try before you buy or go to somewhere you know is reputable.

I would not buy from ebay any clubs, balls etc maybe would get clothing but that is it.

 

[Dodger]

moral of the story Parmo is buy from your PGA pro....

 

[billyg]

The manufacturers don't need to police it.They just expect you to buy from an authorised dealer of their goods. If it turned out one of their own endorsed sellers was palming inferior goods then I have no doubt the lawyers would down on them like a ton of bricks for bringing the brand into disrepute.

It is temping to go for a 'bargain' but the old law of Caveat Emptor (buyer beware) is never more true than on the likes of e-bay.

 

[RGuk]

I'm gutted for you Parmo and am getting a bit nervous about my recent ebay buy.

I'm not an experienced buyer, but I've been really careful about the stuff I've bid on. I have deliberately not gone for advertisers with lots of stuff or stock photos or poor feedback. There's a seller on ebay called MrsAngela who has endless cobra gear......**** knows where it all comes from, but with a very high feedback and selling slightly bashed up stuff, seems ok.

I'm guessing you went for one of the deals I was looking at.
Personaly, given the mark up on clubs 3 for £110/120 doesn't seem too good to be true, it seems about right for an indepedent seller. You need to get them checked out for your sanity and then see if the seller is still trading.

I suspect the reality is this; if you are buying 1 club that could be got new for "x" amount, it's not worth saving £10 or something, go to a pro or discount store. Bargains are almost impossible to find unless you bid for some weird s*** that no-one knows (like my 1995 macgregor putter!!)

bad luck, please let us know.

 

[Parmo]

moral of the story Parmo is buy from your PGA pro....

well... I would but they have like 4 different sets of irons and charge $40 for a very very used vokey so they are not competative in the least.

I have AG just down the road so will see them, but when you are on a budget ebays sometimes sees decent and I am sure there are real clubs being sold on there.

 

[medwayjon]

there are also a lot of callaway fakes outthere a friend of mine was offered a set of callaway x-20s irons and woods all for 299 with a free bag all sounded too good to be true and i advised him against it.there is a site which deals in clones golfripoff.com i was disgusted but its above board cos there not claiming to be the real thing.ian mc

I saw this on ebay when I sold a set of X20's that I won.

These were so obviously fakes but there are people gullable enough to beleive they are getting a bargain. If something is drastically underpriced it is probably 1) Fake, 2) Nicked, or 3) completely f***ed.

I know somebody who bought a brand new superquad off ebay for £100 against my advice. The head opened up like a can of beans after a few hits.

 

[Parmo]

I think the deal was $129 + $16 p+p so roughly $150 for three Cleveland CG12's, I thought it was about right if they (in my mind for some reason) work out to retail at $50. I have nearly bought from that Cobra women, all her gear has no covers which I find strange.

 

[medwayjon]

I have seen the cobra person and I think it is genuine stuff. Probably is ex-demo stuff or p/x gear from some source. Maybee she has a contact at acushnet?

 

[Parmo]

there are also a lot of callaway fakes outthere a friend of mine was offered a set of callaway x-20s irons and woods all for 299 with a free bag all sounded too good to be true and i advised him against it.there is a site which deals in clones golfripoff.com i was disgusted but its above board cos there not claiming to be the real thing.ian mc

I saw this on ebay when I sold a set of X20's that I won.

These were so obviously fakes but there are people gullable enough to beleive they are getting a bargain. If something is drastically underpriced it is probably 1) Fake, 2) Nicked, or 3) completely f***ed.

I know somebody who bought a brand new superquad off ebay for £100 against my advice. The head opened up like a can of beans after a few hits.

I have seen people paying $180+ for FAKE x20's and the add states that they are fake aswell.

I wouldnt buy from this dude (this is my own thoughts and not in any way connected to GM)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Callaway-X-20-Iron...1QQcmdZViewItem

This is a pretty interesting read.

http://reviews.ebay.com/COUNTERFEIT-CALL...T:-1:LISTINGS:1

 

[Up_Point_1]

Sorry to hear your tales of woe Parmo.

People that deal in counterfeit goods and palm them off on unsuspecting individuals need a good shoeing as far as i'm concerned. Thieving ba**&$%s !!!!

DHM.

 

[toonarmy]

Parmo, I bought a set of 3 CG11s for a similar price last summer. Now they looked pretty genuine on arrival, and I checked them over thoroughly and couldn't find anything to suggest they weren't kosher. Went out and used them and frankly, if they ain't genuine, I'll be buggered if I care!

I bought my Callaway X-Tours 2nd hand off eBay too. Admittedly, it was a bit of a punt, but again, they are definitely legit. Once I got over the cosmetic damage and realised brand new clubs would have looked like that within a year anyway, off I went. Fair to say, I haven't looked back since.

My club buying from eBay began with a 2nd hand Mizuno MX-500 driver, which I picked up for a reasonable and fair price. I think if you just apply common sense when buying, you'll be OK.

Bottom line, if the club does the job for you, what do you really care? That said, it was nice to buy John_Findlay's putter from him via this forum as it removed any hint of doubt. Definitely a good idea for us to have a section for equipment though.