European Tour players - mini tour events

[Grant85]

Agree it's a bit of a bad move by Southgate. If he has a European Tour exemption he should be concentrating on preparing for and playing in those events and making sure he holds onto his card.

However, you don't really know the full story. OK, so on paper a lot of tour pros look like they are making a few hundred thousand a year, but it would be interested to see the actual finances. A few trips to Australia, Middle East, South Africa and flying in and out of continental Europe is going to account for a fair chunk of cash. Plus maybe some fair weather practice in December / January in Dubai or Florida. Coach fees, physio, caddy retainer etc.

Maybe for him, the chance to drive to a tournament with virtually no outlay in terms of time and money and have a better than 50% chance of winning £10,000 was too big an opportunity to miss. Obviously this was the case for him. Effectively he would have spent that time practising anyway.

Surely the organisers could stipulate a ruling like no entrants can have been ranked inside the top 500 within the last 12 months.

 

[Orikoru]

I don't really see the problem with a pro entering a pro event.

I think I agree with this really. Just a pro entering a pro event, don't really see the issue. If the organisers wanted it to be for 'up-and-coming' pros then they should have stated a rule that tour players are prohibited from entering, but they didn't, so they obviously didn't have a problem with Southgate entering. I don't think there's much difference for the rest of the players having to beat Matt Southgate or the next generation of Matt Southgates who may have been in the field anyway.

 

[MendieGK]

I think I agree with this really. Just a pro entering a pro event, don't really see the issue. If the organisers wanted it to be for 'up-and-coming' pros then they should have stated a rule that tour players are prohibited from entering, but they didn't, so they obviously didn't have a problem with Southgate entering. I don't think there's much difference for the rest of the players having to beat Matt Southgate or the next generation of Matt Southgates who may have been in the field anyway.

For me though in an 18 hole shootout for someone with his career earnings, £350 entry or whatever it was means nothing.

A young pro struggling to get going due to finances. Outlays £350 it could cripple him for the rest of the year

 

[Dan2501]

Just seen Matt Wallace has weighed in now @MendieGK

https://twitter.com/x/status/1134378864887701504

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

That’s valid, around career earnings, but they don’t have a tour to play on at the moment. No different to an older prem player moving down leagues as they get older.

I think your contradicting yourself a bit here, generally if an older player moves down a league or two it's so he can continue earning a living, and by doing this he is potentially preventing a younger up & coming player from playing/earning a living, so what is the difference between this and Matthew Southgate playing in an event to try and boost his earnings ?

 

[MendieGK]

Just seen Matt Wallace has weighed in now @MendieGK

https://twitter.com/x/status/1134378864887701504

Haha class. HAve you noticed the word he used though in his post - FORMER

 

[MendieGK]

I think your contradicting yourself a bit here, generally if an older player moves down a league or two it's so he can continue earning a living, and by doing this he is potentially preventing a younger up & coming player from playing/earning a living, so what is the difference between this and Matthew Southgate playing in an event to try and boost his earnings ?

Because they can no longer compete at the top level... Southgate clearly can

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Because they can no longer compete at the top level... Southgate clearly can

But most of them would be doing it for the money, whats the difference ?

 

[Slab]

Have we not always seen this in golf (and its accepted as the norm)

Tiger or Spieth turning up on the other side of the planet to play an event they would not normally be at in a month of Sundays. That has the potential to rob someone of their maiden win and 2 yr tour exemption, maybe someone else loses tour card for not earning enough etc etc
Better players adding an extra event they wouldn’t normally do, when coming back from injury or to get out of a performance slump or just because they tack on a family holiday nearby afterwards

It’s not new

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Done a quick search, quoting from their website:-

https://www.clutchprotour.co.uk/


Seems fairly clear to me and your beliefs that it is for up and coming pros, are not held out by the aims or rules of the tour and even on the front page it says 'OPEN TO AlL Pros'.

Membership

-There are no membership fees

-This is a completely open professional tournament, accessible to all professionals male & female.

-Clutch Pro Tour has the right to refuse any entry application.

-Clutch Pro Tour has rights to accept any all entries for declared professionals of any level.

 

[IanM]

This is just like a +5 away player turning up once a year to play the club championship when the next best player in the club is scr - and not be seen again for a year.

Yes, not illegal, but leads to a little resentment among the regulars.... Maybe that's the point

 

[Grant85]

Have we not always seen this in golf (and its accepted as the norm)

Tiger or Spieth turning up on the other side of the planet to play an event they would not normally be at in a month of Sundays. That has the potential to rob someone of their maiden win and 2 yr tour exemption, maybe someone else loses tour card for not earning enough etc etc
Better players adding an extra event they wouldn’t normally do, when coming back from injury or to get out of a performance slump or just because they tack on a family holiday nearby afterwards

It’s not new

No - this is different. In this case, these guys are getting appearance fees. Ok, so maybe the guys ranked 100 to 500 would rather they just added this pot to the prize fund and encouraged a higher level of field that way. But what it also does is massively increase the world ranking points on offer, which is absolutely key to the guys ranked outside the top 50 and top 100 (and those guys on the bubble).

That's why the addition of so many top 10 players to the Saudi field was done via appearance fees, because it meant the event carried a huge world ranking incentive and it would naturally mean that most other players who were exempt for the Tournament would turn up and not moan too much even if the actual prize money to them was going to be harder to win with so many top 10 players.

 

[MendieGK]

Done a quick search, quoting from their website:-

https://www.clutchprotour.co.uk/


Seems fairly clear to me and your beliefs that it is for up and coming pros, are not held out by the aims or rules of the tour and even on the front page it says 'OPEN TO AlL Pros'.

My belief is based on the interview with the founder on sky sports

 

[Slab]

No - this is different. In this case, these guys are getting appearance fees. Ok, so maybe the guys ranked 100 to 500 would rather they just added this pot to the prize fund and encouraged a higher level of field that way. But what it also does is massively increase the world ranking points on offer, which is absolutely key to the guys ranked outside the top 50 and top 100 (and those guys on the bubble).

That's why the addition of so many top 10 players to the Saudi field was done via appearance fees, because it meant the event carried a huge world ranking incentive and it would naturally mean that most other players who were exempt for the Tournament would turn up and not moan too much even if the actual prize money to them was going to be harder to win with so many top 10 players.

I agree with you but my point that someone is missing out because of the presence of a much better player than the event would usually attract still stands
When Spieth (for an appearance fee) went to Asia for a tourney 4 or so years ago he was the only marque player in the field, and if memory serves he won. Someone else missed out
When Sam Snead chalked up PGA tour event wins at events where the field was struggling to even reach double figures it was so low profile, someone else missed out

 

[Grant85]

I agree with you but my point that someone is missing out because of the presence of a much better player than the event would usually attract still stands
When Spieth (for an appearance fee) went to Asia for a tourney 4 or so years ago he was the only marque player in the field, and if memory serves he won. Someone else missed out
When Sam Snead chalked up PGA tour event wins at events where the field was struggling to even reach double figures it was so low profile, someone else missed out

Ok - but I think most of the guys on the bubble would rather the fields were stacked so the weeks they are the 145th guy in, there is a bit more on offer in terms of world ranking.

If your exemption is such that you are on the bubble and not getting every European start, then you just have to accept that your schedule is whatever you can get.

We've seen the likes of Connor Syme shun European Tour starts to focus on his Challenge Tour ranking and lock a good spot for 2020. Ultimately the guys on the bubble are either going to progress and this will be a one off season for them, where they try and cobble together enough starts to get top 125 - or they will probably fall away and have to do something else to earn a living.

The perennial 'journeymen' like Richard McEvoy and Oliver Wilson who hop from ET to CT are getting fewer and further between.

 

[Jacko_G]

Maybe it also gives the "lesser" known professionals an idea of the standard they need to achieve. A benchmark as to speak?

Yes I agree with the OP it's not ideal but I can understand why he's entered and as he's broken no rules then fair play.

 

[duncan mackie]

If they run it yearly, then i'm sure having a European tour player could be seen by some people considering entering as a plus. The chance to test themselves against a top player.
.

given that entry is about £400 I can't really see why the normal entrants would appreciate him entering at all - they have all the statistical basis they need for testing themselves against others; they enter this bn the expectation of

 

[sunshine]

Don't see the issue here. Southgate is a professional golfer entering a pro event that is open to him. The pro golfers are independent contractors and it's up to them to maximise their earnings as they see fit. Would have no issue even if Tiger turned up (he has more money than he'll ever need but still chases the cash).

Am sure the organisers were delighted he entered. They will probably publicise his appearance heavily when they market the next event.