EU Referendum

[bluewolf]

Totally right. Having a referendum and then ignoring the result would be outrageous.

Claiming people were tricked by lies is also cobblers. Huge whoppers were told by both sides, they often are at elections, but we have to see through that as voters. One side won, one lost. Those who lost need to accept it and move on.

The vast majority of those who lost have accepted it, but it's impossible to move on until the Governments intentions are made clear. The Conservatives could have ended all the protests almost immediately by activating article 50 straight after the referendum. By prevaricating, and in some cases showing outright cowardice, they have allowed large doubts about the future of the U.K./EU to bloom.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The vast majority of those who lost have accepted it, but it's impossible to move on until the Governments intentions are made clear. The Conservatives could have ended all the protests almost immediately by activating article 50 straight after the referendum. By prevaricating, and in some cases showing outright cowardice, they have allowed large doubts about the future of the U.K./EU to bloom.

How do you actually know this?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Totally right. Having a referendum and then ignoring the result would be outrageous.

Claiming people were tricked by lies is also cobblers. Huge whoppers were told by both sides, they often are at elections, but we have to see through that as voters. One side won, one lost. Those who lost need to accept it and move on.

From what I've read the referendum was advisory, not mandatory. And this is the legal difference between an election, a mandatory and an advisory referendum.

http://www.uk-engage.org/2013/05/what-is-the-difference-between-an-election-and-a-referendum/

So I think the legal argument is that if it was an advisory referendum then the government could legally ignore it. Probably would have made sense to tell the electorate that beforehand though as I expect many people thought they were voting in an election type situation..

 

[bluewolf]

How do you actually know this?

Because the vast majority of are rational people who can accept the result of a national vote without resorting to the age old tactic of "crying and taking their ball home".....

Its up up to the politicians and "interested parties" to decide the way forward now.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Because the vast majority of are rational people who can accept the result of a national vote without resorting to the age old tactic of "crying and taking their ball home".....

Its up up to the politicians and "interested parties" to decide the way forward now.

You mean the 46% of Leave voters who thought that the referendum would definitely be rigged by Remain

 

[Hobbit]

You mean the 46% of Leave voters who thought that the referendum would definitely be rigged by Remain

And, "how do you actually know this?"

Sorry but that's just rubbish.

 

[SocketRocket]

I have been reading up on whether parliament must be asked before article 50 is activated. Parliament has no formal say over whether or when Article 50 is invoked, as this lies within the royal prerogative powers that are exercised by government. Government’s powers in matters of foreign policy are very extensive, and parliament has veto rights only in respect of treaties. If parliament were to pass a motion calling on the Prime Minister not to invoke Article 50, we might nevertheless expect him (or perhaps, by then, her) to respect that. But the Prime Minister could claim the authority of the popular vote to justify ignoring such pressure.

It can also be considered that the Lisbon treaty that activated Article 50 into EU Law was agreed by the UK so no further legal action is required as we have already agreed to the way we implement it. Also the fact that the Government put a 'referendum on membership of the EU' in their manifesto and were voted into government on that manifesto then the result of that referendum has already been given approval by the electorate. (Please don't muddy the waters with the percentages of voters voting in the General Election as thats just irrelevant in a democratic election)

After an agreement with the EU has been completed or the discussions run out of time then there would need to be a change to the European Community Act that passes legal powers to the EU over UK law.

 

[MarkE]

Can you imagine the uproar around the country if they try to wriggle out of implementing brexit? It would make today's little london soiree by those who wish to ignore the result look like a tea party. Like I said earlier, it's democracy that's at stake.

 

[Old Skier]

How do you actually know this?

Because most are sane people who understand democracy. There are obviously the odd one or two who are acting like spoilt little brats and keep throwing their toys out but they too will grow up one day.

 

[Old Skier]

You mean the 46% of Leave voters who thought that the referendum would definitely be rigged by Remain

And in the words of the righteous,

"Do you actually know this".

 

[bluewolf]

Because most are sane people who understand democracy. There are obviously the odd one or two who are acting like spoilt little brats and keep throwing their toys out but they too will grow up one day.

In the interests of fairness, it should be stated that it would be exactly the same had Remain taken the day.

 

[Old Skier]

From what I've read the referendum was advisory, not mandatory. And this is the legal difference between an election, a mandatory and an advisory referendum.

I see this being used a lot by the media now but never mentioned prior to the vote, perhaps something underhand is in the wind.

 

[Old Skier]

In the interests of fairness, it should be stated that it would be exactly the same had Remain taken the day.

I'm sure it would but not by those that fully understand and support the democratic process.

 

[SocketRocket]

The vast majority of those who lost have accepted it, but it's impossible to move on until the Governments intentions are made clear. The Conservatives could have ended all the protests almost immediately by activating article 50 straight after the referendum. By prevaricating, and in some cases showing outright cowardice, they have allowed large doubts about the future of the U.K./EU to bloom.

I agree but the current situation has arisen due to the lies of Cameron. He stood there just before the referendum and pledged he would continue as PM which ever way the vote went then jumped ship at the first opportunity, knowing how it would frustrate the process. His leadership with the referendum was dire, instead of keeping the debate calm and reasoned and using his resources to consider a strategy on how we would deal with a post Brexit vote, he acted like a desperate blinkered harbinger of doom with no B plan.

 

[bluewolf]

I agree but the current situation has arisen due to the lies of Cameron. He stood there just before the referendum and pledged he would continue as PM which ever way the vote went then jumped ship at the first opportunity, knowing how it would frustrate the process. His leadership with the referendum was dire, instead of keeping the debate calm and reasoned and using his resources to consider a strategy on how we would deal with a post Brexit vote, he acted like a desperate blinkered harbinger of doom with no B plan.

In my opinion, he deliberately scuppered Boris's plan to become PM. He put personal issues before the future of the U.K. He was never going to be remembered as a great PM, but his actions ensured he'll be remembered as one of the worst.

 

[SocketRocket]

You mean the 46% of Leave voters who thought that the referendum would definitely be rigged by Remain

Talk like that is silly, percentages of votes only count to decide who had the most and you know it. If the percentages had been the same for a Remain win you wouldn't take that stance. Would you? be honest.

 

[harpo_72]

So it is outrageous to request the leave team to create a party and contend all seats at the next election? I mean it would follow through on the result shut all the arguments up and they would have a manifesto... Democratic due process. They have the support, so now do it properly.
Also to pass a bill in the commons, how big does the majority have to be?

 

[FairwayDodger]

In my opinion, he deliberately scuppered Boris's plan to become PM. He put personal issues before the future of the U.K. He was never going to be remembered as a great PM, but his actions ensured he'll be remembered as one of the worst.

Cameron's place in infamy is assured. He put his personal ambition above the good of the country and was so vain that he didn't think he could lose the referendum gamble. It is criminal that there's no plan for how to go forward after a leave vote.

Likewise Johnson, gove and the rest of the Brexit tories. Unprincipled opportunists playing political games without any real practical concept for what happens now.

In normal times, the tories would be dead in the water after their recent behaviour. Looks like they'll get away with it with labour being so unelectable at the moment.

 

[Hobbit]

So it is outrageous to request the leave team to create a party and contend all seats at the next election? I mean it would follow through on the result shut all the arguments up and they would have a manifesto... Democratic due process. They have the support, so now do it properly.
Also to pass a bill in the commons, how big does the majority have to be?

And now do it properly? It was a referendum, and it was done properly. It was also in the Conservative manifesto. How many manifestos and votes do you want?

And yes, it is outrageous... You're getting so wild, and wound up by all of this. Breathe 2,3,4 and relax. Put your head between your legs and breathe into a brown paper bag.

 

[SocketRocket]

So it is outrageous to request the leave team to create a party and contend all seats at the next election? I mean it would follow through on the result shut all the arguments up and they would have a manifesto... Democratic due process. They have the support, so now do it properly.
Also to pass a bill in the commons, how big does the majority have to be?

As the next election will probably be in 2020 and we will be well out of the EU by then what exactly would this party that had nothing in common other than stay in the EU do

Blow in that paper bag and try again.