EU Referendum

[MarkE]

Just to get one thing straight. The government have got to follow through with brexit, whatever the Stay lobby have to say about it. Anything else would be the death of democracy in this country. In other words we would be on the road to becoming a dictatorship. So, one way or another it's going to happen. Bleating on about certain sections who could'nt be bothered to vote won't wash.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Just to get one thing straight. The government have got to follow through with brexit, whatever the Stay lobby have to say about it. Anything else would be the death of democracy in this country. In other words we would be on the road to becoming a dictatorship. So, one way or another it's going to happen. Bleating on about certain sections who could'nt be bothered to vote won't wash.

I don't think that's strictly the case

Lots of issues that have to be dealt with first

Talks of bills in the Parliament and MPs voting and deals - lots of legal issues to look at first and processes.

Right now the vote was an opinion poll with no legal obligation to follow it through - a change of PM and indeed a General Election could change things , deals with the EU could change things

Going blindly into something isn't democracy - it's lunacy.

If we stayed in the EU for any reason it certainly wouldn't be a dictatorship nor would it be the death of democracy.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Just to get one thing straight. The government have got to follow through with brexit, whatever the Stay lobby have to say about it. Anything else would be the death of democracy in this country. In other words we would be on the road to becoming a dictatorship. So, one way or another it's going to happen. Bleating on about certain sections who could'nt be bothered to vote won't wash.

Morally probably yes. Legally, I suspect we are about to find out.

 

[Old Skier]

Nice to know that some consider the referendum was just an opinion poll. I must have missed that bit on the voting slip.

How was it worded, "In your opinion should the UK stay or leave the UK". Nope still don't remember that bit.

 

[Hobbit]

Just to get one thing straight. The government have got to follow through with brexit, whatever the Stay lobby have to say about it. Anything else would be the death of democracy in this country. In other words we would be on the road to becoming a dictatorship. So, one way or another it's going to happen. Bleating on about certain sections who could'nt be bothered to vote won't wash.

Morally probably yes. Legally, I suspect we are about to find out.

I voted Remain but totally agree with Mark. I suspect there'll be waffle and we'll stay in. At that point I won't vote in another election or referendum. Democracy includes following through on a result. By all means campaign afterwards for change but honour the principle of democracy.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Nice to know that some consider the referendum was just an opinion poll. I must have missed that bit on the voting slip.

How was it worded, "In your opinion should the UK stay or leave the UK". Nope still don't remember that bit.

The stayers didn't start it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-eu-referendum_uk_576e6585e4b08d2c56393f12

 

[Hacker Khan]

I voted Remain but totally agree with Mark. I suspect there'll be waffle and we'll stay in. At that point I won't vote in another election or referendum. Democracy includes following through on a result. By all means campaign afterwards for change but honour the principle of democracy.

I suspect it will go to a legal ruling. No idea what they will say.

 

[Old Skier]

The stayers didn't start it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-eu-referendum_uk_576e6585e4b08d2c56393f12

I dont really care who started it. Whichever way it went it was a childish argument and one that any sane person would kick into touch.

The fact that some want to continue to clutch at straws is rather sad IMHO.

 

[Hobbit]

I suspect it will go to a legal ruling. No idea what they will say.

The legality of it is very clear. The result isn't legally binding. But as you say, morally...

 

[MegaSteve]

We are in the position we are because those in government have been hard of hearing...

And, the hope is they continue to adopt this attitude...

Hey ho that'll solve everything...

 

[Hacker Khan]

The legality of it is very clear. The result isn't legally binding. But as you say, morally...

But there is an argument made by some that morally there were so many lies, deceptions and untruths told that it's a bit late to claim the moral high ground. But I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[Old Skier]

But there is an argument made by some that morally there were so many lies, deceptions and untruths told that it's a bit late to claim the moral high ground. But I couldn't possibly comment.

I presume you mean from both sides.

 

[BubbaP]

Is the assumption that a 2nd referendum would be a comfortable remain vote?

My gut feel is many knew what they were going to do before the campaigning started.
Think it is naive to not acknowledge"lies" from all sides - that's politicians for you.
Agree some of those wavering before would switch based on the 48 hrs after result 1. But reckon as many would go the other way on the "disappointed with democracy" angle.

All speculation of course ��

 

[Hacker Khan]

Is the assumption that a 2nd referendum would be a comfortable remain vote?

My gut feel is many knew what they were going to do before the campaigning started.
Think it is naive to not acknowledge"lies" from all sides - that's politicians for you.
Agree some of those wavering before would switch based on the 48 hrs after result 1. But reckon as many would go the other way on the "disappointed with democracy" angle.

All speculation of course 😊

I would guess it would be to stay as I suspect many of the younger generation who previously could not arsed to vote would come out. Where as the increase in votes by the older generation would not be much. And statistically I think that would swing it. But that could be complete codswallop.

 

[Hobbit]

But there is an argument made by some that morally there were so many lies, deceptions and untruths told that it's a bit late to claim the moral high ground. But I couldn't possibly comment.

I presume you mean from both sides.

BBC's Andrew Neil did a superb demolition of George Osbourne's lies about the costs.

The lies were from both sides.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I presume you mean from both sides.

Possibly, most of the impact will be in the long term anyway, but from what has transpired in the short term it is a lot easier to pick lots of holes in the leavers main claims regarding controlling immigration and the weekly payment to the EU. IMHO.

 

[Old Skier]

Is the assumption that a 2nd referendum would be a comfortable remain vote?

Unlike some countries who have adopted the "we will keep doing this until you vote the way we want you to" I hope as a country we are stronger than that.

 

[Old Skier]

but from what has transpired in the short term it is a lot easier to pick lots of holes in the leavers main claims

Only by a remainer obviously a leaver wouldn't sink so low

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Nice to know that some consider the referendum was just an opinion poll. I must have missed that bit on the voting slip.

How was it worded, "In your opinion should the UK stay or leave the UK". Nope still don't remember that bit.

Totally right. Having a referendum and then ignoring the result would be outrageous.

Claiming people were tricked by lies is also cobblers. Huge whoppers were told by both sides, they often are at elections, but we have to see through that as voters. One side won, one lost. Those who lost need to accept it and move on.

 

[BubbaP]

Possibly, most of the impact will be in the long term anyway, but from what has transpired in the short term it is a lot easier to pick lots of holes in the leavers main claims regarding controlling immigration and the weekly payment to the EU. IMHO.

I can guess what you are referring to, and I won't be trying to defend it. Suppose though they wouldn't formally be untrue until after the actual leave which (if happens) is a way away. That was the problem with most of the rhetoric IMO.
In interest of balance, I must have blinked and missed the emergency budget