EU Referendum

[harpo_72]

The Plan was to get a majority vote to leave the EU. Done. After that it's a matter of negotiations with the EU on how we work with them after we leave, what the hell did you expect a plan to be? remain didn't need any plan as they held the status quo, Brexit made it quite clear they want to end the Supremely of EU Law over UK Law, they want control over immigration, they want to have the ability to set up their own free trade agreements around the World, They want us to vote in our Law makers and not have them appointed. I could go on but you would have to be pretty stupid to not understand the requirements as they have been made clear enough. You also must be clever enough to understand that the Brexiteers couldn't start negotiations before the referendum, if not then you should have voted Leave as we are told most voters for that are stupid and incapable of understanding the issues.

So Farage's outburst today was a diplomatic master stroke of negotiation?
Article 50 takes 2 years, negotiations require two people to talk to each other, the negotiations are loaded in the EUs favour. They could send a monkey along, no papers get signed and we are out in the cold with nothing. The brexit bunch seriously need to brown nose ....

 

[Foxholer]

So Farage's outburst today was a diplomatic master stroke of negotiation?
Article 50 takes 2 years, negotiations require two people to talk to each other, the negotiations are loaded in the EUs favour. They could send a monkey along, no papers get signed and we are out in the cold with nothing. The brexit bunch seriously need to brown nose ....

Even I will allow him a small amount of gloating - he's certainly been consistent in his attitude to the EU!

And no, it's not necessarily a 2 year process! That's simply limit set for the treaty - after which exit is mandatory, with no 'deal'!

However, those who promoted Brexit are correct saying that EU sells more to UK than it buys, so there should be incentive to make a deal!

The lack of a plan was quite clear, but that didn't stop a majority voting to leave - it could have been far greater if there had been! So time to actually get stuck in and get organised - even simply as preliminary to 'official' negotiations!

 

[harpo_72]

Even I will allow him a small amount of gloating - he's certainly been consistent in his attitude to the EU!

And no, it's not necessarily a 2 year process! That's simply limit set for the treaty - after which exit is mandatory, with no 'deal'!
Which is what I meant
However, those who promoted Brexit are correct saying that EU sells more to UK than it buys, so there should be incentive to make a deal!
The car makers feel that way
The lack of a plan was quite clear, but that didn't stop a majority voting to leave - it could have been far greater if there had been! So time to actually get stuck in and get organised - even simply as preliminary to 'official' negotiations!

The EU negotiations have to be official so I would start with non EU deals and get a few of those in my back pocket

 

[SocketRocket]

So Farage's outburst today was a diplomatic master stroke of negotiation?
Article 50 takes 2 years, negotiations require two people to talk to each other, the negotiations are loaded in the EUs favour. They could send a monkey along, no papers get signed and we are out in the cold with nothing. The brexit bunch seriously need to brown nose ....

Thats a rather silly way to consider the situation. The major EU countries will want to retain trade with the UK at the best possible costs, they will listen very closely to the like of the European Motor and Machine Tool manufacturers. Sending monkeys along is not going to happen. In the worse case scenario we reach no trade agreement and the EU apply WTO Tariffs of around 4%, the fall in the GBP will have probably negated the effect that will have anyway. Not forgetting we trade at a very sizeable deficit with the EU, who's going to lose out there. I know the vote didn't go your way but try some rather less sour grapes and you will feel a lot better.

Regarding Farage, do you honestly believe they will lose sleep over what he said, he has been insulting them for years. I guess you also missed the bit where Junker was rubbishing him, guess that's different though as you probably like Junker.

[video=youtube;X3giaMmUMEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3giaMmUMEo[/video]

 

[harpo_72]

Thats a rather silly way to consider the situation. The major EU countries will want to retain trade with the UK at the best possible costs, they will listen very closely to the like of the European Motor and Machine Tool manufacturers. Sending monkeys along is not going to happen. In the worse case scenario we reach no trade agreement and the EU apply WTO Tariffs of around 4%, the fall in the GBP will have probably negated the effect that will have anyway. Not forgetting we trade at a very sizeable deficit with the EU, who's going to lose out there. I know the vote didn't go your way but try some rather less sour grapes and you will feel a lot better.

Regarding Farage, do you honestly believe they will lose sleep over what he said, he has been insulting them for years. I guess you also missed the bit where Junker was rubbishing him, guess that's different though as you probably like Junker.

[video=youtube;X3giaMmUMEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3giaMmUMEo[/video]

Welcome to planet socket rocket .... Beneficiary of care in the community. He imagines it and it happens ....

 

[SocketRocket]

Welcome to planet socket rocket .... Beneficiary of care in the community. He imagines it and it happens ....

Just as I suspected. You dont have a case to support your bleatings so revert to the same old balderdash If you cant hold down a discussion to support your accusations it's probably best not to make them.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Careful, you're being too positive. FTSE back over 6100 at present, and the £ stabilising against the €. Armageddon postponed till tomorrow.

Dead cat bounce, we're still all doomed!

 

[harpo_72]

Just as I suspected. You dont have a case to support your bleatings so revert to the same old balderdash If you cant hold down a discussion to support your accusations it's probably best not to make them.

I might have a spare cardboard box for you when the time comes... But you'll have to find your own trolley and bridge

 

[harpo_72]

Dead cat bounce, we're still all doomed!

Where did the Bank of England get 250billion? Who is going to pay for it?

 

[hovis]

People talking about nigel farage's outburst and how it was stupid! Did these people watch the entire conference? If they did they would have seen all the stick he was getting prior to his outburst

 

[Old Skier]

People talking about nigel farage's outburst and how it was stupid! Did these people watch the entire conference? If they did they would have seen all the stick he was getting prior to his outburst

Unfortunately the media only wanted to show the bit on our nut job failing to show the other nut jobs in the asylum

 

[vkurup]

A great own goal by Hull which voted Leave and now Siemens is leaving (or rather holding back). One of UK's most deprived areas gets a bit more deprived.. Bad for the economy, bad for the environment, bad for young ones.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...k-wind-power-investment-following-brexit-vote

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Thats a rather silly way to consider the situation. The major EU countries will want to retain trade with the UK at the best possible costs, they will listen very closely to the like of the European Motor and Machine Tool manufacturers. Sending monkeys along is not going to happen. In the worse case scenario we reach no trade agreement and the EU apply WTO Tariffs of around 4%, the fall in the GBP will have probably negated the effect that will have anyway. Not forgetting we trade at a very sizeable deficit with the EU, who's going to lose out there. I know the vote didn't go your way but try some rather less sour grapes and you will feel a lot better.

Regarding Farage, do you honestly believe they will lose sleep over what he said, he has been insulting them for years. I guess you also missed the bit where Junker was rubbishing him, guess that's different though as you probably like Junker.

[video=youtube;X3giaMmUMEo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3giaMmUMEo[/video]

You're making a lot of assumptions that trade deals with EU and Non EU countries will be in our favour

There is no way you or anyone knows exactly what deals will be done

The EU countries have just seen a vote to remove the UK from the EU which could well put a number of countries under strain - do you really think they would do any deal that would favour the UK ? Also all these assumptions that we suddenly start trading around the world - again do we think that will be in our favour when they know we need to have trade deals ? so overall we could end up spending a damn sight more than we ever did in the EU but missing all those EU grants that the whole nation took advantage of. Other countries could pray on our desperation

And all this EU and UK law - I'm sorry but I firmly believe that it's nonsense that we don't control our own laws

Would it bother you if it went horribly wrong for the Nation ? Would it matter that if in 5/10 years time the vote to leave was shown to be completely the wrong choice and that choice has negatively affect your families lives ? Or would it not matter because we controlled our own mess ?

 

[Old Skier]

A great own goal by Hull which voted Leave and now Siemens is leaving (or rather holding back). One of UK's most deprived areas gets a bit more deprived.. Bad for the economy, bad for the environment, bad for young ones.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...k-wind-power-investment-following-brexit-vote

Cannot see any mention of leaving and I notice the 1000 workforce according to the piece will not be affected.

Post is a bit puzzling.

 

[Old Skier]

There is no way you or anyone knows exactly what deals will be done

Apart from you who is "pretty sure that they won't be in our favour".

 

[SocketRocket]

You're making a lot of assumptions that trade deals with EU and Non EU countries will be in our favour

There is no way you or anyone knows exactly what deals will be done

The EU countries have just seen a vote to remove the UK from the EU which could well put a number of countries under strain - do you really think they would do any deal that would favour the UK ? Also all these assumptions that we suddenly start trading around the world - again do we think that will be in our favour when they know we need to have trade deals ? so overall we could end up spending a damn sight more than we ever did in the EU but missing all those EU grants that the whole nation took advantage of. Other countries could pray on our desperation

And all this EU and UK law - I'm sorry but I firmly believe that it's nonsense that we don't control our own laws

Would it bother you if it went horribly wrong for the Nation ? Would it matter that if in 5/10 years time the vote to leave was shown to be completely the wrong choice and that choice has negatively affect your families lives ? Or would it not matter because we controlled our own mess ?

Maybe you should reread my post as you don,t seem to have taken in what I said, read the bit about worse case scenarios and trade tariffs. Also consider the bit regarding our trade defect and what trade barriers would do to the larger countries in the EU.

We already trade around the world, as a matter of fact most of our trade is outside the EU and most countries in the world are not in the EU and they manage.

Regarding our Laws, you need to read up and educate yourself, EU law overrides UK law and takes priority. I would prefer that to stop thank you.

You cannot say what effect staying in the EU will have on the future of families, your comments are one track and dont balance up the threats from the almost certain collapse of the Euro and the EU. Most countries in the EU are basket case economies with massive unemployment, if you want us to adopt that as a model then good luck with your families future.

Just accept your wish for us to remain in the EU lost by a democratic process so 'Stay Calm and Carry On'

 

[One Planer]

You're making a lot of assumptions that trade deals with EU and Non EU countries will be in our favour

There is no way you or anyone knows exactly what deals will be done

The EU countries have just seen a vote to remove the UK from the EU which could well put a number of countries under strain - do you really think they would do any deal that would favour the UK ? Also all these assumptions that we suddenly start trading around the world - I'm pretty sure again that won't be in our favour - so overall we could end up spending a damn sight more than we ever did in the EU but missing all those EU grants that the whole nation took advantage of.

And all this EU and UK law - I'm sorry but I firmly believe that it's nonsense that we don't control our own laws

Would it bother you if it went horribly wrong for the Nation ? Would it matter that if in 5/10 years time the vote to leave was shown to be completely the wrong choice and that choice has negatively affect your families lives ? Or would it not matter because we controlled our own mess ?

Trade is a two way steet Phil.

We have a massive trade defect in Europe. A market we are, or were, paying to trade in. In other words, we buy more from them than they do from us. So who is really losing out?

Would nations of the Europe want to lose that and create more uncertainty in the common market? Counties like Italy, Spain, Greece and a few others who's economies aren't in fantastic shape would suffer further.

How would the reduction of exported VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Citroën, Renault, Peugeot, Ferrari, Lamborghini effect French, German and Italian manufacturing markets?

It would hit them hard as they sell quite a few units to the UK per annum.

Why would they potentially price themselves out of a lucrative market leaving the door open for America, Japan and India to win market share as there would be no additional levy on their trade.

We have a trade surplus with counties outside Europe. Surely it's possible to grow these avenues and diversify into emerging markets in India and Asia.

I said from the outset I'm firmly neutral on the subject, but Europe looking to cash in our punish an independent UK doesn't make sense purely out of self interest for their own markets and economies.

People are also forgetting the the UK contributed significantly to the European pot. That contribution will no longer be there. Throw into the mix the potential loss of trade it could be crippling to the entire EU market.

Flip the coin. What do Europe gain from pricing up our exports? Nothing because they don't buy that much from us anyway!

As for laws, we've become so intertwined is hard to see the wood for the trees. We've grown together over the years which making spearing the "Us and Them" tricky at best.

Suffice to say there is good and bad whichever way you look. The one positive outcome I can think to its that our supreme court will have final say in legal matters and not Brussels.

 

[SocketRocket]

I might have a spare cardboard box for you when the time comes... But you'll have to find your own trolley and bridge

Not me mate, I'm sorted and all due to hard work, keeping my nose to the grindstone and not thinking I am someone else's problem. Now you may be a completely different story

Oh! Regarding the trolley, I could probably find one for you as you seem to have come off yours.

 

[Hobbit]

Dead cat bounce, we're still all doomed!

PMSL... I could have sworn I saw its tail swish!!~

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The Plan was to get a majority vote to leave the EU. Done. After that it's a matter of negotiations with the EU on how we work with them after we leave, what the hell did you expect a plan to be? remain didn't need any plan as they held the status quo, Brexit made it quite clear they want to end the Supremely of EU Law over UK Law, they want control over immigration, they want to have the ability to set up their own free trade agreements around the World, They want us to vote in our Law makers and not have them appointed. I could go on but you would have to be pretty stupid to not understand the requirements as they have been made clear enough. You also must be clever enough to understand that the Brexiteers couldn't start negotiations before the referendum, if not then you should have voted Leave as we are told most voters for that are stupid and incapable of understanding the issues.

OK - so all the commentators and politicians asking Bojo, Give and Farage - where's the plan? are wrong. We now don't even know quite what their objectives are as they are gradually and not insignificantly changing.