Old Skier
Tour Winner
If throw away remarks are to be believed it's even happened in Scotland, against someone Spanish. Makes a change from having a go at the English I suppose :lol:
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Let's hope they get out of their nice shinney toys and deal with it.
CheltenhamHacker
Journeyman Pro
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
'Roll up our sleeves and get on' with it has obviously been miss interpreted.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Well, you're assuming they voted - no guarantee of that.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
You don't seem to get it. The main consideration is democracy not what is necessarily best for the UK, although one would hope that it would be a major consideration. What is best for the UK is quite subjective and we should have all realised this after the discussions that have taken place over the last few months, I might think it's mainly to do with sovereignty, you may think it's to do with workers rights or multiculturalism for example so it's not that simple.
Regarding whether the referendum is legally binding or not is peeing into the wind, it will mean we exit the EU and that is something we can be certain of.
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
Leave means many things though. It could be an all out, which would put us in the same box as the US, or it could be the Norwegian model, where we pay to be in the EFA, still have open borders to citizens of the EU, but don't have to be part of the European super state, and can ignore some of the more daft edicts from Brussels.
If we go down the Norwegian route, then not much will really have changed, and all this grief and hand wringing will have been pointless. Yep, we will have brexit, as voted for, but in reality, we will still be in Europe. Ok, we won't have a say at top table, but if we are ignoring the majority of the guff they come out with, does it matter?
The Norwegian route seems to me like the fudge most are looking for. Security by being in the EFA, still able to travel and work in the EU, the city will be happy enough. Ok, the true exitters will have the hump, as it's exit without exit, but for most it would work.
How about changing the thread into how we proceed, and benefits of out, or more out, rather than continuing with the sniping?
If we go down the Norwegian route, then not much will really have changed, and all this grief and hand wringing will have been pointless. Yep, we will have brexit, as voted for, but in reality, we will still be in Europe. Ok, we won't have a say at top table, but if we are ignoring the majority of the guff they come out with, does it matter?
The Norwegian route seems to me like the fudge most are looking for. Security by being in the EFA, still able to travel and work in the EU, the city will be happy enough. Ok, the true exitters will have the hump, as it's exit without exit, but for most it would work.
How about changing the thread into how we proceed, and benefits of out, or more out, rather than continuing with the sniping?
the smiling assassin
Challenge Tour Pro
I don't believe I'm reading that you don't believe what you've been reading, which I wrote.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Given the referendum is advisory I think that that is a prediction rather than a fact. And so there will remain uncertainty around it happening until it does - or Article 50 is invoked for secession, and even then...
As far as sovereignty is concerned. You only have it absolutely until you enter into an agreement with another, regardless of whether that agreement is voluntary or otherwise. Immediately you enter into any such (e.g. trade) agreement you give away some of your sovereignty. So how much sovereignty are Leave actually after - the sovereignty to give it away by the sounds of it?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Oh I get it - you are a true Brexiter whatever they are called that no matter what the affect is to the nation the main priority is leaving the EU - it doesn't matter if it puts us the nation into financial meltdown with a severe loss in business and trade and jobs and housing market - all of that would be secondary because we would no longer be within the EU
Where as my sole aim is what is best for the whole nation - our economy right now is on a knife edge - we have built it back up and a lot of people have worked damn hard and I'm worried that we could make massive steps backward - if the chance of that happening then I want our elected government to ensure they pursue everything single avenue to protect our nation now and for the future , If that means going against a narrow vote then so be it - it will be for the good of the nation
The government asked the people their opinion and the people gave it ( even though some seem to want to change their mind ) - right now that is all it is and will be until they decide to act on it but I will say it again - I hope whatever they do it will be what they believe is best for all of us
That sounds fantastically arrogant. Who decides what is best for the country? Should it be back to an elite, those with a title only? Only people with a degree from an approved university? We have one person one vote in this country and thank heaven's for that. You may not like the outcome but that sometimes happens in life.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
You don't get it either. The sovereignty comment wasn't a point I was making, rather an example of how different people think what is good for the UK is not always the same.
When you say the result is only advisory I guess that is a one way street comment. Just imagine what would happen if the vote had been in favour of Remain and the Government decided to take us out as it was only advisory. I can imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the likes of you and the rest of the Remainers.
Foxholer
Blackballed
I'm absolutely WITH Socket on this!
The issue was put to a referendum and the result was an OUT vote - whether for good reasons or bad (as a Remain could just as easily have been).
So absolutely no going back from a Brexit! But some serious negotiations could well be involved! The starting point, of course, will be tariffs on all UK/EU trade (for which the EU will actually suffer more than UK will, but both will suffer!). And UK Border Force would have to be reinforced to cope with significantly more 'leakage' through France!
The decision as to 'what's best for the country' was put to the country on Thursday! Now it's up to the government to make the best of that decision!
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Do we not vote every four years for people to do what they think is best for the country then ? Is that arrogant ever four years then or should we ask them to ask us all on every single issues that could affect us
We elect people to run our nation and we must trust them to do what is best for us all - they have resources to get people to do their very best to judge what is the best way forward for our nation and when it comes to something as crucial as our future then I hope they do ensure they cover everything single way forward to see what they think is the best way.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
You still dont get this democracy thing, do you?
In history lots of people thought they knew what was best for the people, Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung , Napoleon to name a few. To suggest a Government can ask the people to make a decision on their future then ignore the democratic result is really stupid, sorry but I cannot think of any other way to describe it. As I posted previously, just imagine if the vote had been to remain but the Government had decided to take us out anyway.
Regarding the financial markets. They will settle soon and much of what has happened is only correcting some of the artificial hikes of late. Barclays for example lost 17% but last week jumped up 10% and has been much lower over the past five years. It was obvious there would be an amount of market fluctuation if we Left the EU but we still have a sound economy so it will level up soon enough.
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MarkE
Challenge Tour Pro
Can't believe folk still seem to be advocating the government should go against a referendum result. Get over it, it's going to happen.
For what it's worth, imo the economy is taking such a hit because our own PM and Chancellor have spent months belittling the UK, now they are reaping what they have sown.
Finally, Scotland. What are they going on about. It was'nt a scottish vote, but the whole of the UK. You can't pick and choose regions that wish to comply with the result after the fact. Maybe Norwich, as the only city in the east to vote remain, should go for independence.
For what it's worth, imo the economy is taking such a hit because our own PM and Chancellor have spent months belittling the UK, now they are reaping what they have sown.
Finally, Scotland. What are they going on about. It was'nt a scottish vote, but the whole of the UK. You can't pick and choose regions that wish to comply with the result after the fact. Maybe Norwich, as the only city in the east to vote remain, should go for independence.
This was not a minor issue, it was clearly major and so it was put to the country as a standalone question. This is an incredibly rare happening. The gov't asked the people to decide and they did. Just because it didn't match your view does not make the decision less valid.
Foxholer
Blackballed
In the 'market driven' that UK is proud of, the above is rubbish!
Foxholer
Blackballed
Old Skier
Tour Winner
I have no reason not to believe you.
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