EU Referendum

[Crazyface]

Explain why we are supposed to be classes as one big "trading bloc" and yet we measure our own stats. You are badly wrong HK. Countries will trade with us regardless. We are a huge consumer group!!!!!!

 

[SocketRocket]

Good to see we are putting the relatively small and insignificant issue of immigrants getting benefits ahead of the wider economic implications leaving the EU will have. Do we really think that UK will continue to attract massive amounts of foreign investment if we are out of the EU? Or that many financial institutions will continue to want to base themselves here if we isolate ourselves for one of the largest trading blocs in the world? Both of which factors basically keep our economy going. As I'm not sure our economy can sustain itself on William and Kate mugs and model Big Bens.

Small and insignificant! It's neither of them and what about the strain many towns and cities are experiencing on their public services. I would say we aint seen nothing yet on that front.

Do you honestly believe the scare stories that we will lose all our trade with the EU if we leave? You say "Isolate ourselves" thats one of the typical scare mongering terms being used, also do you honestly believe the City will somehow implode if we are out the EU? The EU have been suggesting they want to tax our financial services and would prefer the business in Frankfurt.

 

[delc]

Good to see we are putting the relatively small and insignificant issue of immigrants getting benefits ahead of the wider economic implications leaving the EU will have. Do we really think that UK will continue to attract massive amounts of foreign investment if we are out of the EU? Or that many financial institutions will continue to want to base themselves here if we isolate ourselves for one of the largest trading blocs in the world? Both of which factors basically keep our economy going. As I'm not sure our economy can sustain itself on William and Kate mugs and model Big Bens.

Don't forget Whisky and Oil. Oh hang on a minute, they're Scottish! :mmm:

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Don't forget Whisky and Oil. Oh hang on a minute, they're Scottish! :mmm:

Not at the moment:lol: but an oot vote will probably hasten that thought.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Since most of our human rights and employment legislation comes via the EU I worry what an unfettered tory government would do in these areas.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I'll be voting out. I want us to be truly independent from a ruling body that is outside of the UK. As to what it will do to British exports; we import more than we export. They need our markets more than we need theirs. They will want to continue trading.

Definitely +1

 

[Hacker Khan]

Small and insignificant! It's neither of them and what about the strain many towns and cities are experiencing on their public services. I would say we aint seen nothing yet on that front.

Do you honestly believe the scare stories that we will lose all our trade with the EU if we leave? You say "Isolate ourselves" thats one of the typical scare mongering terms being used, also do you honestly believe the City will somehow implode if we are out the EU? The EU have been suggesting they want to tax our financial services and would prefer the business in Frankfurt.

And I'm the one using scare stories

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Good to see we are putting the relatively small and insignificant issue of immigrants getting benefits ahead of the wider economic implications leaving the EU will have. Do we really think that UK will continue to attract massive amounts of foreign investment if we are out of the EU? Or that many financial institutions will continue to want to base themselves here if we isolate ourselves for one of the largest trading blocs in the world? Both of which factors basically keep our economy going. As I'm not sure our economy can sustain itself on William and Kate mugs and model Big Bens.

Spot on - I'm 100% STAY. Making such issues as you mention the 'highlights' of a LEAVE campaign and allowing and encouraging the electorate to believe that they are more important than all the economic, environmental etc issues/benefits is being disingenuous to say the least. I am also quite worried and astonished that for a vote of this importance the referendum campaign and debate is going to be shoe-horned into a period of 4 months.

Compare that with the lead up to the Scottish Referendum where there was 2 years of very fierce and generally, I think, pretty well informed debate (you can argue that many YES voters ignored the 'informed' aspect of it - but that's another matter) at all levels and all sectors of the population - and that was on top of decades of background and sometimes foreground debate on independence.

Instead we are going to have 4months of stone-throwing, sound-bites and posturing.

I watched and listened to government Europe Minister David Lidington on Newsnight last night - and despaired. He didn't have a clue. Lidington was almost shaking with the knowledge that he hadn't a clue. Evan Davies tore him to bits.

 

[delc]

Since most of our human rights and employment legislation comes via the EU I worry what an unfettered tory government would do in these areas.

I agree. There are those in the Tory party would would like to send poor peoples' children up chimneys again! We should also remember that there are a couple of million or so UK citizens living in other EU countries who might get any benefits they get reduced on a tit-for-tat basis.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Not at the moment:lol: but an oot vote will probably hasten that thought.

I can only see a couple of scenarios where the result of the EU referendum would lead to another Scottish independence vote. If the Scottish voted to leave and the rest of the UK voted to stay in or vice versa I can see that there would be a demand for a further independence vote. But if the majority of Scots voted the same way as the rest of the UK, either in or out, then there would be no need for a new vote in Scotland.

 

[jp5]

Good to see we are putting the relatively small and insignificant issue of immigrants getting benefits ahead of the wider economic implications leaving the EU will have. Do we really think that UK will continue to attract massive amounts of foreign investment if we are out of the EU? Or that many financial institutions will continue to want to base themselves here if we isolate ourselves for one of the largest trading blocs in the world? Both of which factors basically keep our economy going. As I'm not sure our economy can sustain itself on William and Kate mugs and model Big Bens.

The UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world, of course it will continue to attract investment outside of the EU.

Believe we're also a net exporter to the EU - so see no reason why the EU countries wouldn't want to negotiate a mutually beneficial deal to continue trading.

 

[jp5]

We already do. He was supposed to be trying to put an end to it. Needless to say the eastern European countries will say no. Their workers over here are doing very well out of it, and shipping money back. Their governments don't want the tap to new wealth coming into their country turning off.

I know we already pay child benefit (at our rate!) to kids in other countries. And Mr Cameron is proposing to continue paying it, but at the host countries rate. I struggle to see why anything should be paid in these cases to a child that does not live here.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I can only see a couple of scenarios where the result of the EU referendum would lead to another Scottish independence vote. If the Scottish voted to leave and the rest of the UK voted to stay in or vice versa I can see that there would be a demand for a further independence vote. But if the majority of Scots voted the same way as the rest of the UK, either in or out, then there would be no need for a new vote in Scotland.

Which is true - but for those purporting to have the interests of the United Kingdom at heart, it's a hell of a risk to take.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I know we already pay child benefit (at our rate!) to kids in other countries. And Mr Cameron is proposing to continue paying it, but at the host countries rate. I struggle to see why anything should be paid in these cases to a child that does not live here.

An so to the immigrant worker paying his taxes here - and let's say not claiming any in-work benefits - we say 'no child benefit for your kids' - why? because they are not here? So what? - I could ask. If they were here we would pay? And as a result all the children of immigrants working in UK come here because UK stops paying benefit for the children currently in their own country. That's going to help pressure on services etc.

 

[MegaSteve]

I also think the English based car plants will soon change their production to mainland, probably Eastern European, countries.

Which car plants are these?
The same ones that were to disappear if we failed to join the Eurozone?
Well, we didn't join [and a good job too] and those plants have flourished despite the warnings...
The same harbingers of doom then, are saying the same about 'Brexit'...
They were wrong then and I fancy they are wrong now...
I won't be listening to them...

Bottom line is, why DC is in charge, we are [sadly] going nowhere...

I was around for the first vote, and for me, none of the promises made for the ordinary working man have been met...
Might be on bits of paper floating around but majority of small businesses pay little heed to them...

 

[Pathetic Shark]

I agree. There are those in the Tory party would would like to send poor peoples' children up chimneys again!

Nothing wrong with that so long as they get changed into a jacket and tie before entering the clubhouse and don't hold me up on the course by marking their scores down after each hole whilst standing by the green.

 

[JamPal]

My company export, mainly into Europe, which is as easy as selling at home. And a little into Turkey, which is painful, India, which is also painful and the US which is like pulling teeth.

Our engineers drive round Europe installing our boxes, they work and travel freely and only need their passports to get in and out of Blighty.

The advantages of the EU are blindingly obvious for me. For a postman, Doctor, or someone in manufacturing that for some reason doesn't export they might only see the cost of membership. The cost is massively outweighed by the benefit. In fact, to the economy as a whole there is no cost.


It's a long way from perfect, but I would rather we had a say in how our nearest and most important markets are run. Not being at the table seems churlish. I can't help feeling that the no camp could do with spending some time in business, trying to improve the countries' trade deficit, then have another think.

And for those espousing the Norwegian model, they might want to check their figures. It costs them more money and they have no say. A bit like Nigel Farage.

 

[Hacker Khan]

My company export, mainly into Europe, which is as easy as selling at home. And a little into Turkey, which is painful, India, which is also painful and the US which is like pulling teeth.

Our engineers drive round Europe installing our boxes, they work and travel freely and only need their passports to get in and out of Blighty.

The advantages of the EU are blindingly obvious for me. For a postman, Doctor, or someone in manufacturing that for some reason doesn't export they might only see the cost of membership. The cost is massively outweighed by the benefit. In fact, to the economy as a whole there is no cost.


It's a long way from perfect, but I would rather we had a say in how our nearest and most important markets are run. Not being at the table seems churlish. I can't help feeling that the no camp could do with spending some time in business, trying to improve the countries' trade deficit, then have another think.

And for those espousing the Norwegian model, they might want to check their figures. It costs them more money and they have no say. A bit like Nigel Farage.

Easy there thinking of the wider picture and bringing some real life informed experience into the debate instead of relying on political dogmas and right wing newspaper headlines. You'll get this forum a bad name....

 

[JamPal]

Easy there thinking of the wider picture and bringing some real life informed experience into the debate instead of relying on political dogmas and right wing newspaper headlines. You'll get this forum a bad name....

Sorry, I'll do my best to regurgitate ill-informed highly biased crap from the press in future. I'll have a look and see what Messr's Murdoch and Dacre want me to think...

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Jesus! No!

I wonder what Polly Toynbe thinks..

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Dear god!

And these people get paid to spout this sh1t!

 

[JamPal]

Which car plants are these?
The same ones that were to disappear if we failed to join the Eurozone?
Well, we didn't join [and a good job too] and those plants have flourished despite the warnings...
The same harbingers of doom then, are saying the same about 'Brexit'...
They were wrong then and I fancy they are wrong now...

The fact is, manufacturing in the UK works because our nearest customers are easy to deal with. I don't remember any major manufacturers actually saying they would leave the UK if we didn't join the the Eurozone. I do remember some politically motivated people in the press and some politicians saying it though..

The manufacturers are pretty clear this time. They have published their own statements and although the cost of moving might keep them here in the short term, longer term as plant needs replacing and factories deteriorate, new infrastructure will be built wherever export costs and staffing costs are most favorable. We could still lose them in any
case, but we should at least fight to keep them.

I won't be listening to them...

Genius.:clap:

Bottom line is, why DC is in charge, we are [sadly] going nowhere...

I can't stand DC, but we have gone somewhere. Employment is at an all time high and the economy is growing slowly out of one of the worst recessions we've ever had.

I was around for the first vote, and for me, none of the promises made for the ordinary working man have been met...

Oh, ok, so you think working conditions haven't massively improved since 1975 hahhahahhahahhahahaha? wow. Nothing much will please you then!

Might be on bits of paper floating around but majority of small businesses pay little heed to them...

Much of what the EU does is providing standards for us to all work to. Not that long ago my companies products would only have met UK standards, i would have had to implement huge changes to meet German standards, then go through the whole expensive process again to meet French standards, and so on, and so on. We have trouble selling into the US because UL standards are totally different to CE standards. These "bits of paper" are real things that bring real benefits.

now you might argue that we could still conform to those standards outside of Europe. And you would be right. But inside of Europe we also get to influence (via our elected MEP's*) those standards, we get to have a say and make sure that we are not negatively affected by those standards.



*Unless you voted for that gibbering moron Farage, who takes his MEP money, but does no work in return. He's the real COST in Europe.