EU Referendum

[ColchesterFC]

to the Leave list of those who 'are misguided, misinformed or plain scaremongerers'.

You forgot "vested interests".

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You forgot "vested interests".

An epithet that applies for every single person in the land - we each and every one of us have a vested interest in the outcome of the EU Referendum. It just so happens that some of us have more visibility than others of the bigger picture in their own sphere of interest. It is therefore fatuous to condemn and then ignore their views as being simply out of 'vested interest'.

 

[SocketRocket]

Good grief that's different level speculation! I don't think I've read something more farfetched since Harry Potter.

Even if this did happen, you know very well that we'll be in the EU for more than 2 years if we vote to leave, so under your financial doomsday scenario would still be screwed.

I've read a lot of the thread and while I don't agree with your views think that a lot of your posts and opinions are debated in a credible manner. Unfortunately this undoes all of that and more!!

They can't simply tear up that agreement.

You seem to have completely ignored the last paragraph of my post

 

[SocketRocket]

An epithet that applies for every single person in the land - we each and every one of us have a vested interest in the outcome of the EU Referendum. It just so happens that some of us have more visibility than others of the bigger picture in their own sphere of interest. It is therefore fatuous to condemn and then ignore their views as being simply out of 'vested interest'.

What makes me smile about it is they somehow think it's EU money being used. There is no such thing as Eu money, it's our taxpayers money that we will still be able to spend on research and development just like Norway does.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

What makes me smile about it is they somehow think it's EU money being used. There is no such thing as Eu money, it's our taxpayers money that we will still be able to spend on research and development just like Norway does.

They take the view that they do not believe a UK gov will fund scientific research to the extent that it is by the EU; and given the shambles the economy will be in following a Brexit I can understand their concern; but they also note how UK science and scientists lead in so many ways in the EU and they will lose that and all that it brings.

And so today we are going to be like Norway. So that's for science - now what was it we were going to be like Switzerland? We are going to be Australia for immigration - so it can't be that. 41yrs Leave have had to come up with something coherent - and their view of life outside of the EU is...I haven't a clue - it's all guesswork, hopes, wishes and assertions, a fishing about this country and that for examples of who we might be like. Ausnorland sounds good.

 

[ColchesterFC]

They take the view that they do not believe a UK gov will fund scientific research to the extent that it is by the EU; and given the shambles the economy might be in following a Brexit I can understand their concern; but they also note how UK science and scientists lead in so many ways in the EU and they will lose that and all that it brings.

And so today we are going to be like Norway. So that's for science - now what was it we were going to be like Switzerland? We are going to be Australia for immigration - so it can't be that. 41yrs Leave have had to come up with something coherent - and their view of life outside of the EU is...I haven't a clue - it's all guesswork, hopes, wishes and assertions, a fishing about this country and that for examples of who we might be like. Ausnorland sounds good.

Fixed that for you.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Wasn't sure whether to post on here or start a new thread on the Queen's Birthday Honours list as it is surely unconnected to views on the referendum but did anyone see the list of names that got honours this year. Included in the list are the guy that has bankrolled the Remain campaign along with a couple of other donors, as well as several of the businessmen that signed the open letter supporting Remain and several of the health workers and scientists that signed the other letter supporting Remain.

But I'm sure it's all a coincidence and totally unconnected to the referendum and they haven't been bought off by Cameron and Remain.

 

[Hobbit]

They take the view that they do not believe a UK gov will fund scientific research to the extent that it is by the EU; and given the shambles the economy will be in following a Brexit I can understand their concern; but they also note how UK science and scientists lead in so many ways in the EU and they will lose that and all that it brings.

And so today we are going to be like Norway. So that's for science - now what was it we were going to be like Switzerland? We are going to be Australia for immigration - so it can't be that. 41yrs Leave have had to come up with something coherent - and their view of life outside of the EU is...I haven't a clue - it's all guesswork, hopes, wishes and assertions, a fishing about this country and that for examples of who we might be like. Ausnorland sounds good.

An Australian archaeologist and his team are being funded by the EU for work in the Cambodian jungle. The Swiss are being funded by the EU for the Horizon 2020 project(€80 BILLION, yes BILLION).

And then there's the following non-EU countries receiving science funding.
~Albania
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Faroe Islands
Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
Iceland
Israel
Moldova
Montenegro
Norway
Serbia
Switzerland
Turkey
Ukraine

Bearing in mind all the research currently underway, do you really think they'll move it, having to find new people and premises? Really?

 

[SocketRocket]

They take the view that they do not believe a UK gov will fund scientific research to the extent that it is by the EU; and given the shambles the economy will be in following a Brexit I can understand their concern; but they also note how UK science and scientists lead in so many ways in the EU and they will lose that and all that it brings.

And so today we are going to be like Norway. So that's for science - now what was it we were going to be like Switzerland? We are going to be Australia for immigration - so it can't be that. 41yrs Leave have had to come up with something coherent - and their view of life outside of the EU is...I haven't a clue - it's all guesswork, hopes, wishes and assertions, a fishing about this country and that for examples of who we might be like. Ausnorland sounds good.

Struth! you really do have a hatred for people with alternative views. You were using the same type of arguments for Scotland breaking away and going it alone but of course that was a different situation for some reason. Oh! I know, it's because it was Scotland.

Just think it through a bit and calm down dear. No one has suggested the UK would fund all these Research projects alone, they would decide how they wanted to collaborate and make suitable funding towards these projects, thats exactly what Norway does now. The World doesn't end outside the EU, most countries in the World happen to be outside the EU and they manage to do a bit of research and even collaborate with others.

It's actually a good policy to look at what works well around the World and consider adopting 'best in class solutions'.If you don't then you are being a narrow minded little Englander/Scotsman/German/Whatever.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The two faces of a British Prime Minister.

He managed to stop himself just in time [bubble] Oh no I can't say that because of the ffffff Scots]


http://wingsoverscotland.com/were-keeping-this-one/

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

The Leave campaign have had 41 yrs to come up with a consistent and coherent set of objectives, a strategy and a plan for such as the economy; and what do we have - a set of individuals with different agendas, objectives and pretty much nothing else. To paraphrase Amber Rudd (I could never have imagined nodding in agreement with her as much as I did in the recent ITV debate) this just isn't good enough.

Why should Leave have to have a set of objectives etc when Remain's argument seems to be:

If you don't do as I tell you I'll get my big brother to beat you up.

Successive governments have weakened the UK's position in Europe and there are lots and lots (and lots) of people who see us as the whipping boys of Europe. Given that the people who have put us in that position are the ones suggesting that we're better off with the status quo, wouldn't be a good idea if they talked about all the good stuff that they have done for the 30-40 million people who currently doubt them rather than just saying how bad it will be if we leave?

From a personal viewpoint:
My sister nearly died because of cutbacks in the NHS
My father & father-in-law both had a huge drop in their pensions because of the problems with Equitable Life
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer
The education system in this country is elitist and failing millions
Plans to build on Green Belt land proves that this country is overpopulated
I could go on but you get the idea....

That is the state of my England.

Are you suggesting that these things will improve if we stay 'in'?

 

[User62651]

Sooner this thing is over the better, absolutely sick of the sight of Cameron on tv every single day ranting on the same old message with rarely a positive, all negative, has he no other work to do as PM? He's pushing too hard imo, needs to back off a bit I think and let others speak for remain. Coming across as utter panic, think it's every bit as much about his own future rather than the UK's.

 

[Hobbit]

Why should Leave have to have a set of objectives etc when Remain's argument seems to be:

If you don't do as I tell you I'll get my big brother to beat you up.

Successive governments have weakened the UK's position in Europe and there are lots and lots (and lots) of people who see us as the whipping boys of Europe. Given that the people who have put us in that position are the ones suggesting that we're better off with the status quo, wouldn't be a good idea if they talked about all the good stuff that they have done for the 30-40 million people who currently doubt them rather than just saying how bad it will be if we leave?

From a personal viewpoint:
My sister nearly died because of cutbacks in the NHS
My father & father-in-law both had a huge drop in their pensions because of the problems with Equitable Life
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer
The education system in this country is elitist and failing millions
Plans to build on Green Belt land proves that this country is overpopulated
I could go on but you get the idea....

That is the state of my England.

Are you suggesting that these things will improve if we stay 'in'?

How will they improve if they are already failing whilst we're in? Surely staying in means they will stay the same, i.e. continue to fail?

But at least the EU look after the environment.... Apart from the fracking where we are one of the few countries that are doing it.

 

[chippa1909]

How will they improve if they are already failing whilst we're in? Surely staying in means they will stay the same, i.e. continue to fail?

But at least the EU look after the environment.... Apart from the fracking where we are one of the few countries that are doing it.

I thought you stayed in Scotland now? No fracking in Scotland.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Why should Leave have to have a set of objectives etc when Remain's argument seems to be:

If you don't do as I tell you I'll get my big brother to beat you up.

Successive governments have weakened the UK's position in Europe and there are lots and lots (and lots) of people who see us as the whipping boys of Europe. Given that the people who have put us in that position are the ones suggesting that we're better off with the status quo, wouldn't be a good idea if they talked about all the good stuff that they have done for the 30-40 million people who currently doubt them rather than just saying how bad it will be if we leave?

From a personal viewpoint:
My sister nearly died because of cutbacks in the NHS
My father & father-in-law both had a huge drop in their pensions because of the problems with Equitable Life
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer
The education system in this country is elitist and failing millions
Plans to build on Green Belt land proves that this country is overpopulated
I could go on but you get the idea....

That is the state of my England.

Are you suggesting that these things will improve if we stay 'in'?

Are you suggesting that these things will improve if we leave? As a chair of a governing board I am interested in how leaving the EU will improve the' elitist education system that is failing millions'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Thoughts from abroad on Switzerland and Norway as models for a Brexitted UK

http://www.spiegel.de/international...-switzerland-and-norway-models-a-1096952.html

 

[ColchesterFC]

If the UK votes to leave the EU but agrees to free movement of workers as part of the deal to maintain access to EU trade could we ban EU migrants that don't have jobs (so aren't "workers" if they are unemployed) to come here for and say that EU citizens could not claim any benefits in the UK? Or are those things all tied up in the free movement regulations?

 

[Hobbit]

Thoughts from abroad on Switzerland and Norway as models for a Brexitted UK

http://www.spiegel.de/international...-switzerland-and-norway-models-a-1096952.html

There's one glaring inaccuracy early on in the article in relation to Switzerland's agreement on the free movement of people. According to the article, Switzerland's agreement "is static" and hasn't changed since the day it was signed. Its changed twice in the last two years.

When the EU started negotiations with Turkey on the free movement of people, Switzerland said it wouldn't agree to this. The EU withheld science project funding until the Swiss backed down.

Looks like Das Spiegel is as accurate as the UK's Red Tops!!!

As an aside, David Cameron once again, on the Andrew Marr show this morning, said that there's no way Turkey will be able to join the EU for decades. I wish Andrew Marr had then asked about the two senior Civil Servants who are currently in Ankara negotiating a visa-free deal. Maybe they won't join but it looks like they don't have to... some great articles in today's Times about the proposed legislation currently being suspended till July so as not to give the Brexiters any more leverage!!

 

[Foxholer]

...
Looks like Das Spiegel is as accurate as the UK's Red Tops!!!
....

Impressive! You've just neutered Der Spiegel with that comment.

 

[Hobbit]

Impressive! You've just neutered Der Spiegel with that comment.

There's a few Red Tops I wouldn't mind nuking

Der Die Das... tomato, tomarto...