EU Referendum

[MegaSteve]

Er, no. I wouldn't hold a referendum at all. They are a very bad idea. At best they are a reasonably accurate assessment of public opinion on issues they mostly know very little about (.....and I include myself in that statement as well as you and most of the population). Oh, and those who do know a lot about economics, business, finance, health, science investment, security etc are overwhelmingly in favour of staying in. Not that I'd let facts like that influence me at all.

But government is meant to be for the ordinary person every bit as much for the self serving folk you mention...


Don't believe Cameron [and cronies] have any intention of taking us anywhere unless the vote is of landslide proportions in favour of exit... Really don't trust the bloke one little bit...


Remain disappointed with Jezza ... Frank Field is my new #1 hero :thup:...

 

[Ethan]

Really, who can reform it?

Is it not true that since 1996 Britain has complained and challenged 55 new laws in the council of ministers and we were defeated all 55 times! So currently we can have laws imposed upon us which we can do absolutely squat about even though we believe they are unjust and not in our own country's interest!

Pledges made by our elected government also mean squat when immigration, migration, VAT and anything else that will benefit other European countries at our expense can and will be decided in Brussels.

How can you reform something that is biased, the rest of Europe is a parasite trying to feed off us, it's a load of tosh about trading to and from the world or Europe will be affected, you only have to spend a good deal of time on the motorways to see the amount of foreign vehicles that are delivering goods into us and see the amount of British lorries heading overseas, all that isn't going to stop because we vote out, these countries need and want our business and vice versa, and being in or out of Europe will not change that, because we are still in Europe geographically, we just don't want to be ruled by a non elected body and have our own laws squashed or dictated to by those countries that will benefit greater by them at our cost!

Vote OUT!

A rant which nicely encapsulates the incoherence of the Brexit position. I love the 'counting lorries to predict the future' delusion. Priceless.

Well played, sir.

 

[Ethan]

Er, no. I wouldn't hold a referendum at all. They are a very bad idea. At best they are a reasonably accurate assessment of public opinion on issues they mostly know very little about (.....and I include myself in that statement as well as you and most of the population). Oh, and those who do know a lot about economics, business, finance, health, science investment, security etc are overwhelmingly in favour of staying in. Not that I'd let facts like that influence me at all.

This referendum was a badly judged attempt to quieten the Tories xenophobes on Europe and get around Boris. Big stupid mistake, and that is why Cameron is done win, lose or draw.

The graphic posted yesterday shows that the poorly educated want out and the well educated want to stay. Says it all.

 

[MegaSteve]

The graphic posted yesterday shows that the poorly educated want out and the well educated want to stay. Says it all.

Well, I'll take my 5 O levels ahead of anything you've got if it means I don't get to feel the need to insult others with differing opinions to your own...

 

[Ethan]

Well, I'll take my 5 O levels ahead of anything you've got if it means I don't get to feel the need to insult others with differing opinions to your own...

No worries. I am not insulted by your 5 O Levels nor surprised by your inability to put together a more substantive response than just to have a go, since the entire Brexit campaign is built on endless repetition of braindead slogans.

 

[Foxholer]

This referendum was a badly judged attempt to quieten the Tories xenophobes on Europe and get around Boris. Big stupid mistake, and that is why Cameron is done win, lose or draw.

Inclined to agree with this!

The graphic posted yesterday shows that the poorly educated want out and the well educated want to stay. Says it all.

But you are wrong on this - and I hope that's not how you draw conclusions in your professional capacity!

Had you used the word 'favour' instead of 'want', then I'd be more inclined to agree!

Even the 'poorly educated' and 'well educated' are debateable! You would have to state 'lower qualified' and 'higher qualified' to actually reflect the stats!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The graphic posted yesterday shows that the poorly educated want out and the well educated want to stay. Says it all.

Thanks for calling me poorly educated. The school that sold your golf club the land is clearly a waste of time, I would have been better off at the local comprehensive

 

[Ethan]

Inclined to agree with this!


But you are wrong on this - and I hope that's not how you draw conclusions in your professional capacity!

Had you used the word 'favour' instead of 'want', then I'd be more inclined to agree!

Even the 'poorly educated' and 'well educated' are debateable! You would have to state 'lower qualified' and 'higher qualified' to actually reflect the stats!

I disagree. The distinction is between level of education and intelligence. Not having much education does not mean someone is not intelligent. L

 

[Ethan]

Thanks for calling me poorly educated. The school that sold your golf club the land is clearly a waste of time, I would have been better off at the local comprehensive

I wasn't calling you or anybody else poorly educated. It is a broad brush correlation between educational status and EU referendum voting intention, but it is not a simple all or nothing. There is a correlation between following football or rugby and educational achievement too, but that doesn't mean a football fan is necessarily not well educated.

 

[Foxholer]

I disagree....

Disagree all you want! Your statement about WANT-ing out is irrefutably wrong - the stats in the chart clearly indicate that they 'favour', not 'want'!

The distinction is between level of education and intelligence. Not having much education does not mean someone is not intelligent. L

And that was precisely my (2nd) point!

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I wasn't calling you or anybody else poorly educated. It is a broad brush correlation between educational status and EU referendum voting intention, but it is not a simple all or nothing. There is a correlation between following football or rugby and educational achievement too, but that doesn't mean a football fan is necessarily not well educated.

If you hadn't put the comment 'Says it all' on the end I would have been inclined to believe you but that final statement indicates to me that you agree with the comment. Sad really as I know plenty of very intelligent people that are in favour of voting to leave.

 

[Hobbit]

Thanks for calling me poorly educated. The school that sold your golf club the land is clearly a waste of time, I would have been better off at the local comprehensive

Don't worry, both sides appear to be a mix of Oxford graduates and CSE in art students.

Not surprisingly, Jeremy Corbyn has two E-grades at A-level and is a college dropout. Perhaps the most important issue since he took up the leadership, and he's an absolute lame duck... unlike David Miliband, a Remainer, whose education CV is stunning. C'mon Labour, bring him back in!!

 

[Ethan]

Disagree all you want! Your statement about WANT-ing out is irrefutably wrong - the stats in the chart clearly indicate that they 'favour', not 'want'!



And that was precisely my (2nd) point!

1. Refute it, then. Show me why favour and want are not broadly the same.

2. Then you did not make it very well. You said well qualified, which is a correlate of well educated not intelligent.

 

[Foxholer]

1. Refute it, then. Show me why favour and want are not broadly the same.

2. Then you did not make it very well. You said well qualified, which is a correlate of well educated not intelligent.

1. The numbers speak for themselves - as you should admit! Unless the 'lead' was 100%, then some either 'want' the opposing view or are undecided! So your unequivocal statement/s is/are wrong! Whereas 'favour' is correct, because that's what the stats indicate!

2. I posted 'well qualified' because that's exactly what I meant- and nothing else (rather like the way Rules of Golf are worded)! Your interpretation of the qualifications (as stated on the chart) was exactly that - an interpretation, that may or may not be valid! Again, that's what I stated in my second point.

Oh, and introducing 'broadly' is rather a cop-out - and a poor one imo too!

 

[Ethan]

1. The numbers speak for themselves - as you should admit! Unless the 'lead' was 100%, then some either 'want' the opposing view or are undecided! So your unequivocal statement/s is/are wrong! Whereas 'favour' is correct, because that's what the stats indicate!

2. I posted 'well qualified' because that's exactly what I meant- and nothing else (rather like the way Rules of Golf are worded)! Your interpretation of the qualifications (as stated on the chart) was exactly that - an interpretation, that may or may not be valid! Again, that's what I stated in my second point.

Oh, and introducing 'broadly' is rather a cop-out - and a poor one imo too!

At the risk of prolonging the pedantic a and semantics, neither a Uni degree or an A level are qualifications per se. The survey therefore did not address qualifications, rather level of education. People here have taken that to be a proxy for intelligence, which it may or may not be.

'Broadly' simple acknowledges that the words are not synonyms. It is common parlance to say that people wanted a Tory Govt at the last election, meaning that more wanted that than any other choice, even if a minority in absolute terms. I don't think it is unreasonable to say that UKIPpers and Mail and Express readers 'want' a Brexit. They may it may not know any coherent reasons why, but that's another story.

 

[Foxholer]

At the risk of prolonging the pedantic a and semantics, neither a Uni degree or an A level are qualifications per se. The survey therefore did not address qualifications, rather level of education. People here have taken that to be a proxy for intelligence, which it may or may not be.

'Broadly' simple acknowledges that the words are not synonyms. It is common parlance to say that people wanted a Tory Govt at the last election, meaning that more wanted that than any other choice, even if a minority in absolute terms. I don't think it is unreasonable to say that UKIPpers and Mail and Express readers 'want' a Brexit. They may it may not know any coherent reasons why, but that's another story.

:rofl:

 

[ColchesterFC]

Am I right that the social class of people equates to how well off they are? So A, B and C1 being more likely to vote Remain are the wealthier in society and C2, D and E being more likely to vote Leave are the poorer members of society? And could this be linked to the fact that the wealthier people are more likely to have private medical cover and kids in private schools so aren't going to notice waits for medical/dental treatment and increased school class sizes caused by an increasing population?

 

[SocketRocket]

At the risk of prolonging the pedantic a and semantics, neither a Uni degree or an A level are qualifications per se. The survey therefore did not address qualifications, rather level of education. People here have taken that to be a proxy for intelligence, which it may or may not be.

'Broadly' simple acknowledges that the words are not synonyms. It is common parlance to say that people wanted a Tory Govt at the last election, meaning that more wanted that than any other choice, even if a minority in absolute terms. I don't think it is unreasonable to say that UKIPpers and Mail and Express readers 'want' a Brexit. They may it may not know any coherent reasons why, but that's another story.

The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. I don't think your comments are Hydrogen!

 

[SocketRocket]

Am I right that the social class of people equates to how well off they are? So A, B and C1 being more likely to vote Remain are the wealthier in society and C2, D and E being more likely to vote Leave are the poorer members of society? And could this be linked to the fact that the wealthier people are more likely to have private medical cover and kids in private schools so aren't going to notice waits for medical/dental treatment and increased school class sizes caused by an increasing population?

Absolutely correct. Cameron and Osborne wont notice any difference in the Chipping Norton enclave.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Am I right that the social class of people equates to how well off they are? So A, B and C1 being more likely to vote Remain are the wealthier in society and C2, D and E being more likely to vote Leave are the poorer members of society? And could this be linked to the fact that the wealthier people are more likely to have private medical cover and kids in private schools so aren't going to notice waits for medical/dental treatment and increased school class sizes caused by an increasing population?

Those socio-economic groups are also less likely to find their jobs in jeopardy in the event of a vote to leave.