Equipment prices

[jim8flog]

You guys don't do Euros, and I don't know the conversion to Pounds Sterling off the top of my head.

.

In the main whatever it say in dollars in the US for most products it says in pounds here, shipping, VAT(Sales Tax) and import duty add a lot and euro v pound is virtual parity for estimating purposes.

 

[jim8flog]

Surely nobody buys golf clubs without having tried them if they are in any way a regular golfer?

My last three sets of irons were all buy before try simply because the price was so good I would get my money back off the bay if I did not like them. I often buy nearly new at substantially reduced prices or clearance sets.

In recent years I have had only set of irons that were try before buy and one 3 wood.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Reading some of the suggestions on the Bargains thread had me looking up the independent or direct to consumer brands like Sub70, Takomo, PXG, etc. For irons, their reviews seem very positive and they have decent choice of styles and shafts (maybe not much left handed). Yet their pricing is a fraction of the major OEMs - even PXG is competitive. I just don't get how the other brands can continue raising pricing as high as they are when there is clearly new cheaper competition for the majority of golfers. It can't be input and raw material costs as this would crush the smaller guys too if they're keeping their end prices low. And I would have thought lockdowns have meant the average consumer is much more comfortable buying physical goods online now than before when you might need to feel something like a club in your hands first.

Yet I feel like I'm the dummy, cause clearly the major brands are being very successful at raising prices. Maybe it requires a 2nd hand market to develop for the independent smaller guys before more people will switch to them so they can see if value is retained? Or a longer track record of quality and after sales service?

The big guns have the golf equipment market by the short and curlies, in my opinion. It's very difficult to obtain truly impartial reviews of equipment as the majority that are reviewing have an incentive to favour the big manufacturers as they are the ones that buy the sponsorship and keep the market going. This put DTC brands at a general disadvantage.

Also, there's a fair bit of brand snobbery around in every market, a lot of people I know like to show off their new golf clubs and an unknown brand is unlikely to hit the mark outside of real golf enthusiast circles such as this. I think there's also a bit of risk aversion too, and I think quite a lot of people would rather pay an extra £150 or whatever for a driver that the pros use than save the cash and buy one that not so many people have heard of (and more likely than not does not get quite as good a review).

Having a look at the Sub70 website, their kit looks fantastic and I can see the attraction of going for a fitting (also just been reading Fader's experience https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/sub70-golf-a-superb-fitting-experience-update.109292/)

 

[peld]

It's very difficult to obtain truly impartial reviews of equipment as the majority that are reviewing have an incentive to favour the big manufacturers as they are the ones that buy the sponsorship and keep the market going. This put DTC brands at a general disadvantage.

this is where the like of MyGolfSpy and TXG come in who can verify they are similar performance

 

[Deleted member 23270]

I don't really but into the 'R&D' excuse. Seriously how much have irons improved in the last 5-10 years? I only recently changed from a 20 year old set of Callaways which I shifted onto a guy at the club and they are still in his bag. They replaced a 5 year old set of TMs in his bag. Is a TSI driver all that much better than a 915 or 917? A few yards maybe but nothing significant.
The Orkas, PXGs and Sub70s of this world produce top quality equipment without the excuse of 'R&D' costs. In fact, PXG do their own R&D, they brought in ex Ping guys.

The price we pay comes down to marketing and our desire to have the latest and greatest clubs in our bags the same as Rory, Rambo etc. If nobody bought any new clubs for a year I'm sure the big 5 would seriously reduce their prices.

 

[HeftyHacker]

As a question to those saying iron design hasn't changed much - how long has the hollow headed irons been a thing? I haven't been following the sport that long but these seem a relatively new phenomenon and seem to be one of the faster growing segments of the market?

Edit: that's not to say they're an improvement over the traditional cavity backs or blades of the last 15 years, just something different

 

[Crow]

As a question to those saying iron design hasn't changed much - how long has the hollow headed irons been a thing? I haven't been following the sport that long but these seem a relatively new phenomenon and seem to be one of the faster growing segments of the market?

Edit: that's not to say they're an improvement over the traditional cavity backs or blades of the last 15 years, just something different

The first came out at least 40 years ago, the Dunlop Deltic was one model.

Edit:

Just checked my dates on this and I'm slightly out.
The Dunlop Deltic came out around 1986 so 35 years old.
Another well known model was the TaylorMade Tour Preferred TO3 TD which had hollow heads in the 1 to 4 irons. These came out in 1987.

 

[chico]

R & D? Square headed driver anyone. ?

 

[Pants]

I never found that a white headed driver produced a better shot over a black/red/blue one,

I'm quite happy to admit that it's the wally wielding the weapon that's the problem - not the weapon itself. Have recently put my 20yr old X12's in my winter carry bag. Still one of the best "forgiving" clubs made. (Imo of course)

 

[GB72]

I was always under the impression that the white headed driver had a load of marketing tosh behind it but the reason for it was to that it was obvious which pros were using it on the TV coverage, especially those not contracted to use a TM headcover or not directly contracted to use a TM driver.

 

[Imurg]

I was always under the impression that the white headed driver had a load of marketing tosh behind it but the reason for it was to that it was obvious which pros were using it on the TV coverage, especially those not contracted to use a TM headcover or not directly contracted to use a TM driver.

TM said, in the pages of Golf Monthly magazine, that White was "the best colour for a driver to aid alignment" and 5 years later admitted that it was a huge marketing ploy tied in with the Pros on TV...

 

[HeftyHacker]

The first came out at least 40 years ago, the Dunlop Deltic was one model.

Well there you go, every days a school day!

 

[Crow]

Well there you go, every days a school day!

Just checked this and I was slightly out, it was 35 years ago, see revised post https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/equipment-prices.110602/post-2431170 with pics.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I was never overly sold on white headed drivers, square headed or any other type. I always go to any test to compare my current driver with what is on offer. If the new model is better, clearly better, not just a yard here and there, then I'll have a conversation with the tester/my club pro. For a long time though there hasn't been much to beat my Ping

 

[Oddsocks]

- The big brands are paying Tour players

And that’s the answer right there! Anyone notice how Mike gear rocketed when they signed Rory for 250mil+ or how TM prices almost doubled when tiger and Rory when over.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And that’s the answer right there! Anyone notice how Mike gear rocketed when they signed Rory for 250mil+ or how TM prices almost doubled when tiger and Rory when over.

Plenty of excellent brands like Orka or Benross that go under the radar but are very good clubs, perhaps (depending on your point of view) better still when custom fitted

 

[Oddsocks]

Plenty of excellent brands like Orka or Benross that go under the radar but are very good clubs, perhaps (depending on your point of view) better still when custom fitted

Wilson staff range

 

[Pants]

As you may have gathered, I'm not one to believe marketing hype.

Not from here say, not from perception, but genuine experience ....

A few years ago I had a custom driver fitting at Calloway in Chessington (a present from my son - I would never have bothered). Was asked to take current clubs with me for comparison. When the fitter saw that I had a 5 year old TM Burner he immediately said that he wouldn't be able to give me any more length but might be able to help with dispersion. The fitting then became more about the shaft rather than what head was recommended. Says it all really.

 

[Slab]

Lets not forget the role of the golf enthusiast in forcing rising prices. Manufactures/retailers will push the price to its limit (until sales start to fall)
We cant just blame ‘marketing’ from TM or whoever, it still takes two to tango. You need the ‘mug punter’ to complete a sale… yup that’s gonna apply to many on the forum

And like house buying, its not the first time club buyer pushing up prices, its those who are already home owners ‘upgrading’. Its not even the regular player changing their 15-20 year old gear
Its players with perfectly serviceable newish clubs buying new kit every few years & I’d guess we’ve all done it (and of course we’re entitled to spend our disposable income as we see fit)

Without all the sales made by players changing gear that's less than a handful of years old, prices wouldn't be so high

 

[Deleted member 25575]

Is it not very similar in a way to cars also? Look on the road now and see how many cars are the big name German ones, in reality they arent any better in real world situations than a cheaper car, certainly not for what 99.9% of us use a car for (going to the supermarket, dropping little Johnny off at school, etc), but people like, if they can afford to, to have nice, new, the best stuff regardless of real world performance