Equipment prices

[Banchory Buddha]

Plenty of excellent brands like Orka or Benross that go under the radar but are very good clubs, perhaps (depending on your point of view) better still when custom fitted

Never heard of Orka so won't comment, but I don't think it's possible to get fitted for BenRoss is it?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Is it not very similar in a way to cars also? Look on the road now and see how many cars are the big name German ones, in reality they arent any better in real world situations than a cheaper car, certainly not for what 99.9% of us use a car for (going to the supermarket, dropping little Johnny off at school, etc), but people like, if they can afford to, to have nice, new, the best stuff regardless of real world performance

This is a terrible analogy, of course premium cars are better, better materials, better put together, there's variables in there for sure, and the cheaper marks have upped their game in the last 20 years (I drive Skoda which is light years from the old Skoda). But sit inside an Insignia & a 5 series and tell me there's no difference?

 

[Albo]

This is a terrible analogy, of course premium cars are better, better materials, better put together, there's variables in there for sure, and the cheaper marks have upped their game in the last 20 years (I drive Skoda which is light years from the old Skoda). But sit inside an Insignia & a 5 series and tell me there's no difference?

I didnt say there was no difference, just said that for the function most of us use them for, premium or none premium perform just as well. Do you need heated leather seats to get you to the supermarket and back? No, are they nice to have, yes!

 

[chrisd]

This is a terrible analogy, of course premium cars are better, better materials, better put together, there's variables in there for sure, and the cheaper marks have upped their game in the last 20 years (I drive Skoda which is light years from the old Skoda). But sit inside an Insignia & a 5 series and tell me there's no difference?

Honestly I do think Albo has made a fair point. A new £12k car will still get you where you want to go and it'll do it perfectly well but if you want a £60k car it'll still only get you there, but your experience will be better.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

As you may have gathered, I'm not one to believe marketing hype.

Not from here say, not from perception, but genuine experience ....

A few years ago I had a custom driver fitting at Calloway in Chessington (a present from my son - I would never have bothered). Was asked to take current clubs with me for comparison. When the fitter saw that I had a 5 year old TM Burner he immediately said that he wouldn't be able to give me any more length but might be able to help with dispersion. The fitting then became more about the shaft rather than what head was recommended. Says it all really.

SO a good fitter then

Early last decade I got trained up in fitting, around the time the G20 series came out with Ping & the Rocketballz with TM. We had all the major brands as well as Benross, which were the only ones we couldn't fit for.

As you can imagine, I'd spend hours hitting everything myself so certainly knew what was right for me, and also had opinions on the "best" clubs overall.

That year half the irons we sold were the Ping G20, probably 40% of the rest were the Cobra S3 Max which were also excellent cavity backs & Rocketballz from TM, with most of the rest being Wilson iteration of the year for those who didn't want to spend the Ping money and Taylormade or Titleist fanboys who were going to buy them regardless of whether they were best. There was only one guy all year who should have taken the Rocketballz irons based on fitting, but we sold a decent number of them.

The "best" club will of course be different for different people, which is why you should always get fitted once you're at a semi-decent level, with as much variety of clubs as you can try.

I've had my driver 10 years, which was fitted (not by me) and has a custom shaft, just been re-fitted and came out with the G425 LST which is giving me 15-20 yds (inside) by comparison. There's no doubt I've lost length v my pals the last few years, while not actually losing length as I'm still landing where I've always done. Technology does move on, not in great big leaps, but incrementally, so over a number of years it will become noticeable, if you change every year you're unlikley to see anything.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I didnt say there was no difference, just said that for the function most of us use them for, premium or none premium perform just as well. Do you need heated leather seats to get you to the supermarket and back? No, are they nice to have, yes!

OK, but you're making a different argument, for most a custom fit will show minor betterment if they can even feel it at all, but for the better player those minor things take more importance.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Honestly I do think Albo has made a fair point. A new £12k car will still get you where you want to go and it'll do it perfectly well but if you want a £60k car it'll still only get you there, but your experience will be better.

Yes, the 60k car will go "longer and straighter" because it's got all the best in their.

If you want something to tootle down to the shops, yes just buy the Wilsons.

 

[AliMc]

I don't really but into the 'R&D' excuse. Seriously how much have irons improved in the last 5-10 years? I only recently changed from a 20 year old set of Callaways which I shifted onto a guy at the club and they are still in his bag. They replaced a 5 year old set of TMs in his bag. Is a TSI driver all that much better than a 915 or 917? A few yards maybe but nothing significant.
The Orkas, PXGs and Sub70s of this world produce top quality equipment without the excuse of 'R&D' costs. In fact, PXG do their own R&D, they brought in ex Ping guys.

The price we pay comes down to marketing and our desire to have the latest and greatest clubs in our bags the same as Rory, Rambo etc. If nobody bought any new clubs for a year I'm sure the big 5 would seriously reduce their prices.

Don't disagree with what you have said here at all but on the specific point of whether TSi drivers are better than the 915 or the 917 the answer for me anyway is most definitely yes they are significantly, they are consistently now the most used driver amongst the Pro's, they are just far better designed in my opinion, I gave my 2 h'cap mate who had a 915 a loan of my TSi3 driver to try for a couple of rounds and he changed the same week, they really are that good, but not for everyone obviously !

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Honestly I do think Albo has made a fair point. A new £12k car will still get you where you want to go and it'll do it perfectly well but if you want a £60k car it'll still only get you there, but your experience will be better.

I'd say that the better car analogy to driving a golf ball, given the willy waving that seems to be involved, is the traffic light grand prix! With that in mind, there is likely a very significant difference in performance between a £12k car and a much more expensive one.

I get your point, but I think you do get more for your money in car terms in a way that I'm not so sure you do in golf club terms, at least not in a meaningful way.

EDIT: Thinking about it more, I think the best car analogy is why do people buy a VW Golf when they could buy a Seat Leon, given the shared components, or a Sharan v a Alhambra.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Never heard of Orka so won't comment, but I don't think it's possible to get fitted for BenRoss is it?

Apparently so https://www.benrossgolf.com/custom-fit/

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Apparently so https://www.benrossgolf.com/custom-fit/

Noted

Very London centric though, so I was right, but wrong

 

[Orikoru]

Apparently so https://www.benrossgolf.com/custom-fit/

Interesting. When you look at locations most of them seem to be at American Golfs, so I wonder how in-depth of a custom fit that is.

 

[Imurg]

Interesting. When you look at locations most of them seem to be at American Golfs, so I wonder how in-depth of a custom fit that is.

It will depend on whoever fits you...
Some AGs have decent fitters, some don't.
You're not going to get the same fitting as you would at a TXG or Golf Principles but, at some locatio s, they'll do a decent job.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

It will depend on whoever fits you...
Some AGs have decent fitters, some don't.
You're not going to get the same fitting as you would at a TXG or Golf Principles but, at some locatio s, they'll do a decent job.

Spot on. It's buyer beware. Know what you should be looking for on the figures before you start, always, ALWAYS take you own clubs for a comparison baseline, and also, if a club feels awful, ignore the figures, if it feels awkward, or chunky, or too think, it wont improve out on the course when under pressure. You should be bleeshing a new club that's set up for you right away (once it's been dialled in)

 

[IainP]

Noted

Very London centric though, so I was right, but wrong

They were wider when "independent", prior to whatever happened with American Golf

 

[Oddsocks]

It will depend on whoever fits you...
Some AGs have decent fitters, some don't.
You're not going to get the same fitting as you would at a TXG or Golf Principles but, at some locatio s, they'll do a decent job.

It will also depend on what swing you take that day and also if you’re going through any swing changes at the time. The benefit of the fitting is only as good and the consistence in the swing ?

 

[sunshine]

Anyone notice how Mike gear rocketed when they signed Rory for 250mil+ or how TM prices almost doubled when tiger and Rory when over.

No I didn't notice this at all.

 

[BiMGuy]

No I didn't notice this at all.

Who was Mike Gear?

 

[sunshine]

Honestly I do think Albo has made a fair point. A new £12k car will still get you where you want to go and it'll do it perfectly well but if you want a £60k car it'll still only get you there, but your experience will be better.

It's like a top-flite v pro v1: both are round, but the performance and feel is different.

 

[Imurg]

I also have this deep down feeling that the YouTubers are somehow in on the deal....
They all seem to change what's in their bag every year - the odd club exception like Rick's Old Bluey - and yet we're told that we don't need to change irons for 5 years, Drivers for 3 etc etc....
So the likes of Rick, Pete, Crossy, Robbo, AverageGolfer etc etc are helping the marketing machines by always having the latest clubs in the bag.
Tag lines like " these will be my irons next year" etc etc....
We see that and are subliminally coerced into changing when there's no real need.
Or I could be becoming even more deeply cynical than I already am........