Dropping the ego

[Foxholer]

Greg, I think you are the proof that some people shouldn't go near competitions until they get a decent handle on the game. You seem to have taken the handicap thing and made a noose for yourself. You see it as a weight that is keeping you down from reaching your true potential.

If people want to improve their game then they should indeed cast the handicap aside and identify weaknesses in their game. Go and focus on those and leave trying to compile good scores for further down the line. When someone asks how you are getting on, tell them I am just practising.

I have posted on here before my belief that people starting out should start with an 18 handicap and should also stay well clear of medals. All medals do is beat new golfers around the head and give them humiliating scores in the treble figures. All this does is damage the new player and some people find it hard to control these pressures of trying to shoot better scores.

What I don't understand is that you claim to be a golf psychologist. Some people including myself questioned your ability to be a good golf psychologist if you hadn't even got a basic level of ability in golf. That is ultimately what the badge of handicaps. It gives golfers a general idea of your golfing potential. Anyway, I can look past that but your comments in the opening post is what worries me in in your claim to be a golf psychologist.

What kind of golf psychologist would hide away for 8 weeks with a 3 week injury because his scores were not improving, fearful that people were judging him, real or imagined. If you walk onto the first tee and tell someone your a golf psychologist, you can sure as hell bet this guy will be judging your round.

"I was trying to avoid making mistakes in comps in front of strangers''

Again another quote that tells me, you probably shouldn't be playing comps as its doing nothing but stunting your own development. Until you reach a level, you either no longer care what others think or you have enough confidence in your own ability to get the ball around the course, them stick 'to practise.

You seem to get a bit mind melted believing that this mastery this is the mind insulator and its long term goal is better than short target orientated methods of improvement. Maybe so, but surely the kaizen (Toyota) method of improvement would actually be small measurable improvements over time that build a large scale overall improvement.

All in all Greg, I think you would have been better off down at the practice ground for the last month rather than trying to find golfing solace in psychology books.

I agree with much, but not all, of this! The iterative improvement of the Kaizen approach is really how most sporting improvements are made even without a 'formal name'.

 

[Birchy]

Ok firstly I don't mean playing with a chip on your shoulder or being an arrogant person or golfer necessarily. By ego I mean focussed on results. Do you dwell on your score, your results and those of other golfers? Do you care more about how others perceive you as a golfer than perhaps you do yourself? Can you enjoy a game of golf without playing well or even while playing badly? Do you get embarrassed and frustrated by poor shots/holes/rounds?

This was me. I started to fall out of love with golf about 10 weeks ago. My scores were not coming down, I was trying to avoid mistakes especially when playing in comps with strangers. I felt constantly judged by other golfers especially doing what I do and yet having such a high handicap. I made a 2-3 week neck injury last 8 weeks. I stopped coming on this very forum because I was sick of being judged (real and imagined) based on that bloody number that defined me as a golfer.

Last week I went out in a comp with two players I have never me before I shot 102 of the indigo's over the round I lost three balls oob, one in the water and shot a 12 on the par 5 17th with 4 shots from one bunker. I can honestly say I have never ever enjoyed golf more. I no longer cared what they thought, I no longer cared about my short term score on any given day. I have spent the last month reading and absorbing everything I can find on Flow, Kaizen, Mindfulness and anything and everything else I can get my hands on in that area. The most important thing I have learned is that Mastery beats Ego in the long run.

Mastery orientated people care about the process of long term improvement not quick fixes and short term scores. A mastery mindset will insulate you from what others think and having to impress. Mastery will make your practice sessions far more focussed and effective and your golf way way more enjoyable. Golf has this overwhelming undeniable yard stick that follows you everywhere. What is the first question you get asked by other golfers or friends/family members after a round..."how did you play?" followed in a close second by "What did you shoot?" What do people ask when they find out you are a golfer "What is your handicap?" The ego trap in laid everywhere and you must make a conscious decision to ignore it.

In a separate thread someone was asking if something another golfer was trying had worked, had it reduced his or anyone else's handicap. Someone else claimed they were gullable suckers wasting money and yet another called it 'guff'. His reply was an almost perfect reply of a mastery mindset. His handicap has gone up but he did not avoid the question. He is enjoying golf more than ever and more importantly enjoying the process of long term improvement. He is dedicated to this new way of thinking and playing and confident it will work in the long run. I would wish him luck but he genuinely does not need it.

Right I will be honest :-

If im playing really badly then I wont enjoy it much at all, that's just how im wired. If I was consistently crap I would probably jack it in as a bad job and find something more enjoyable to do.

Do I get annoyed by bad shots? Hell yeah but once ive hit it then had a word with myself its time for the next shot. I don't get embarrassed by them but just annoyed that I haven't done myself justice.

I rarely think about my handicap but just about playing the best shot I can every time I address the ball.

As for caring what about what other golfers think of me? :rofl: Couldn't care less at all. If you are insecure and worry too much golf will tear you a new one. Worrying about what other people think of your game or handicap will eat you.

You need to love yourself and believe in yourself or you have got no chance. That doesn't mean walk round strutting like a knob but you should look forward to the pressure situations and testing yourself rather than worrying.

 

[garyinderry]

Interesting that you say I made a noose for myself (which perhaps I did) but also say that you were one of the people who questioned my ability to be a good psychologist if I was not very good at golf. To an extent I was desperate to prove you and others wrong. That I would get my handicap down to shut you up and perhaps more people would listen to my advice on here. Then I realised it makes no difference. I will have a low handicap one day but it will not make one iota of difference to my talents as a psychologist. My advice will be the same and my ability to help people will not improve. Perhaps more people will be willing to take my advice but the advice will be the same. I am no longer playing and practicing for others, now I am doing it for myself and because I enjoy it not because I feel obligated as a psychologist.

Your advice won't be the same. Even in this last 8 weeks you have learned things about the game and yourself that you couldn't relate to a client before. This game is a journey, a seemingly never ending journey of highs, lows and new things to discover. As you play and progress in your own game you will be better able to relate to your clients about the pressures they feel when trying to break 100, get to 18handicap, get to singles, know what it feels like to be under par, trying to shoot level gross etc.

All this will come in time. Its these experiences that will make you a better golfer and in turn make you a better golf psychologist.

At the minute, if I was a prospective client of yours I would be indeed worried about your lack of golfing skill. If I could see past that I would be further worried about your glaringly weak mind as it is, or was recently was. I would prefer my golf psychologist to, if he couldn't walk the golf walk, I would like him to at least be able to walk the psychologist walk. (edit: if you can't do that, sure as hell don't tell anyone)

I just believe you are a few years from being able to call yourself a true golf psychologist. You may know quite a bit of theory on sports psychology but to translate that into a meaningful way to golf is a little bit off just yet. Keep working hard and I have no doubt you will get there. As you say, there are no limits to what people can do. Just obstacles and time.

 

[bladeplayer]

Right I will be honest :-

If im playing really badly then I wont enjoy it much at all, that's just how im wired. If I was consistently crap I would probably jack it in as a bad job and find something more enjoyable to do.

Do I get annoyed by bad shots? Hell yeah but once ive hit it then had a word with myself its time for the next shot. I don't get embarrassed by them but just annoyed that I haven't done myself justice.

I rarely think about my handicap but just about playing the best shot I can every time I address the ball.

As for caring what about what other golfers think of me? :rofl: Couldn't care less at all. If you are insecure and worry too much golf will tear you a new one. Worrying about what other people think of your game or handicap will eat you.

You need to love yourself and believe in yourself or you have got no chance. That doesn't mean walk round strutting like a knob but you should look forward to the pressure situations and testing yourself rather than worrying.

Get in There Birchy Boy :clap::thup:..... LIKE

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Gary I noticed In your website apart from a lot of guarentees you were helping someone go from 24 to 10 but no updates for months ?

How is he doing in that quest and are you still working with him

Do you use the same methods with him as you do yourself ?

 

[garyinderry]

His names Greg

 

[brendy]

New golf thinking really, dont care about your score, shoot the ton. job jobbed.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

His names Greg

Oops - sorry Greg

 

[DaveM]

Greg, I think you are the proof that some people shouldn't go near competitions until they get a decent handle on the game. You seem to have taken the handicap thing and made a noose for yourself. You see it as a weight that is keeping you down from reaching your true potential.

If people want to improve their game then they should indeed cast the handicap aside and identify weaknesses in their game. Go and focus on those and leave trying to compile good scores for further down the line. When someone asks how you are getting on, tell them I am just practising.

I have posted on here before my belief that people starting out should start with an 18 handicap and should also stay well clear of medals. All medals do is beat new golfers around the head and give them humiliating scores in the treble figures. All this does is damage the new player and some people find it hard to control these pressures of trying to shoot better scores.

What I don't understand is that you claim to be a golf psychologist. Some people including myself questioned your ability to be a good golf psychologist if you hadn't even got a basic level of ability in golf. That is ultimately what the badge of handicaps. It gives golfers a general idea of your golfing potential. Anyway, I can look past that but your comments in the opening post is what worries me in in your claim to be a golf psychologist.

What kind of golf psychologist would hide away for 8 weeks with a 3 week injury because his scores were not improving, fearful that people were judging him, real or imagined. If you walk onto the first tee and tell someone your a golf psychologist, you can sure as hell bet this guy will be judging your round.

"I was trying to avoid making mistakes in comps in front of strangers''

Again another quote that tells me, you probably shouldn't be playing comps as its doing nothing but stunting your own development. Until you reach a level, you either no longer care what others think or you have enough confidence in your own ability to get the ball around the course, them stick 'to practise.

You seem to get a bit mind melted believing that this mastery this is the mind insulator and its long term goal is better than short target orientated methods of improvement. Maybe so, but surely the kaizen (Toyota) method of improvement would actually be small measurable improvements over time that build a large scale overall improvement.

All in all Greg, I think you would have been better off down at the practice ground for the last month rather than trying to find golfing solace in psychology books.

what he said. Saves me writing it. Can't see how a poor golfer can do that job. Or help others if he can't help himself?

 

[Qwerty]

Lol, its a very simple yet powerful concept. Small incremental increase in performance daily, leads to large overall improvements over time. This can be done in life, business or even golf. :thup:

Or put another way:-

You have to fight and win a lot of battles, to help you win the war.

Please don't use negative words like, fight, battle and war! I prefer to say, you have to squeeze a lot of grapes to get the wine!

i think we need a philosophy sub-forum

 

[G_Mulligan]

Your advice won't be the same. Even in this last 8 weeks you have learned things about the game and yourself that you couldn't relate to a client before. This game is a journey, a seemingly never ending journey of highs, lows and new things to discover. As you play and progress in your own game you will be better able to relate to your clients about the pressures they feel when trying to break 100, get to 18handicap, get to singles, know what it feels like to be under par, trying to shoot level gross etc.

All this will come in time. Its these experiences that will make you a better golfer and in turn make you a better golf psychologist.

At the minute, if I was a prospective client of yours I would be indeed worried about your lack of golfing skill. If I could see past that I would be further worried about your glaringly weak mind as it is, or was recently was. I would prefer my golf psychologist to, if he couldn't walk the golf walk, I would like him to at least be able to walk the psychologist walk. (edit: if you can't do that, sure as hell don't tell anyone)

I just believe you are a few years from being able to call yourself a true golf psychologist. You may know quite a bit of theory on sports psychology but to translate that into a meaningful way to golf is a little bit off just yet. Keep working hard and I have no doubt you will get there. As you say, there are no limits to what people can do. Just obstacles and time.

Those are frankly ridiculous comments, if I actually took stock in your opinion I would be quite offended at being labeled weak minded. Just because somebody has flawed thinking in one area does not make them weak minded, thankfully I simply find it amusing. As for not being a 'true' golf psychologist and needing another few years until I become one...well that is just plain ludicrous. Of course I will be better in a few years time because I constantly look to improve myself and keep up to date with the latest theories. I am however already more than good enough to help golfers to improve as I have with my past and present clients.

I posted this to help others understand the process of improvement and the mind set that helps make the process more effective and enjoyable. If I can help just one person that relates to what I am saying about being ego orientated and help move them towards mastery then it will be worthwhile. Frankly I have heard enough opinions around here with regards to my ability or lack thereof so if you don't like me or my advice then feel free to ignore it because I will ignore yours from now on.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Some really interesting points and I empathise with the OP's original comments. I have always got stick on here for having loads of lessons and yet my handicap has increased by 0.2 in 2014. Handicap in my opinion isn't always the best way to mark your standard of play and for me at least, I am much more comfortable in where my swing is and I understand far better these days how it works and when it goes wrong what the reason is (even if I can't always cure it in the middle of a round).

I haven't given up on my goal of single figures and I will get there. Whether it's parking the ego not to be bothered about the small increase in handicap against the vastly improved ball striking and better direction. I still have short game and bunker issues that I'm working hard to improve (I'd say my chipping handicap is more 20 handicap than 9).

I went out and shot net 81 in the medal last week although the back had gone and I was ill. I was trying my heart out all the way through and perhaps even six months ago that score would have been the end of the world. Today, it just fires me up to be better next time, work harder on my swing, clean up the short game and keep plodding on over the winter. More lessons beckon to refine the technique a little further and onwards and upwards.

I hope the OP finds some consistency in their game but even if the bad rounds continue that he finds the enjoyment he deserves. I hope the work he's putting in pay off and that he gets some handicap cuts. I'm a great believer that for many, you get out what you put in and so if you're prepared to invest time and effort in improving your own game then eventually you'll get the rewards. As for my own goals, single figures will come whether that is next month next year or whenever. I don't need to use the handicap to know exactly where my game is and whether I'm getting better

 

[G_Mulligan]

Some really interesting points and I empathise with the OP's original comments. I have always got stick on here for having loads of lessons and yet my handicap has increased by 0.2 in 2014. Handicap in my opinion isn't always the best way to mark your standard of play and for me at least, I am much more comfortable in where my swing is and I understand far better these days how it works and when it goes wrong what the reason is (even if I can't always cure it in the middle of a round).

I haven't given up on my goal of single figures and I will get there. Whether it's parking the ego not to be bothered about the small increase in handicap against the vastly improved ball striking and better direction. I still have short game and bunker issues that I'm working hard to improve (I'd say my chipping handicap is more 20 handicap than 9).

I went out and shot net 81 in the medal last week although the back had gone and I was ill. I was trying my heart out all the way through and perhaps even six months ago that score would have been the end of the world. Today, it just fires me up to be better next time, work harder on my swing, clean up the short game and keep plodding on over the winter. More lessons beckon to refine the technique a little further and onwards and upwards.

I hope the OP finds some consistency in their game but even if the bad rounds continue that he finds the enjoyment he deserves. I hope the work he's putting in pay off and that he gets some handicap cuts. I'm a great believer that for many, you get out what you put in and so if you're prepared to invest time and effort in improving your own game then eventually you'll get the rewards. As for my own goals, single figures will come whether that is next month next year or whenever. I don't need to use the handicap to know exactly where my game is and whether I'm getting better

Cheers Homer, you are on the right path and just have to continue in that direction. Sounds like this NGT has already helped you drop the ego and given you the confidence to go about it your own way and filled with confidence. I wish you luck and look forward to joining you in single figures at some point in the future.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Greg - how is your client doing in his quest from 26 to 10 ?

In regards psychology are you involved in any other sports and do you play any other sports yourself ?

 

[G_Mulligan]

Greg - how is your client doing in his quest from 26 to 10 ?

In regards psychology are you involved in any other sports and do you play any other sports yourself ?

Phil - It went well we had one more session back in May (but I never got round to typing it up) and he went off to play and practice over the summer but we keep in touch and he is looking to get involved with flow in the new year.

Not in a professional capacity but I did work with a boxer and a cricketer during my degree. I think darts would be ideally suited to flow and looking to find a way into that at some point. I don't play other sports anymore but I have played football, rugby, cricket, badminton, basketball, tennis, and american football in the past. Why?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil - It went well we had one more session back in May (but I never got round to typing it up) and he went off to play and practice over the summer but we keep in touch and he is looking to get involved with flow in the new year.

Not in a professional capacity but I did work with a boxer and a cricketer during my degree. I think darts would be ideally suited to flow and looking to find a way into that at some point. I don't play other sports anymore but I have played football, rugby, cricket, badminton, basketball, tennis, and american football in the past. Why?

Just wondered how you have been getting on professionally in regards the psychology - it's been seen to be successful in a number of sports ( well mind coaches they get called )

Has your friends HC reduced ?

Darts ?! Not a sport

 

[G_Mulligan]

Just wondered how you have been getting on professionally in regards the psychology - it's been seen to be successful in a number of sports ( well mind coaches they get called )

Has your friends HC reduced ?

Darts ?! Not a sport

The last time I checked with him about a month ago he did not mention any cuts. I know due to work commitments he has not been playing many comps and tends to play and practice alone on midweek evenings. He is happy with his swing changes though and is playing to around 18-20 unofficially off the yellows.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The last time I checked with him about a month ago he did not mention any cuts. I know due to work commitments he has not been playing many comps and tends to play and practice alone on midweek evenings. He is happy with his swing changes though and is playing to around 18-20 unofficially off the yellows.

As I said, cuts aren't the only marker, at least in my book. As long as I'm making progress in terms of ball striking and consistency then I know I'm moving forward. It's that pesky short game holding back and the two bad holes per round that are killing. I need to find a way of losing the silly holes and the rest will fall into place and hopefully the cuts will come

 

[garyinderry]

Those are frankly ridiculous comments, if I actually took stock in your opinion I would be quite offended at being labeled weak minded. Just because somebody has flawed thinking in one area does not make them weak minded, thankfully I simply find it amusing. As for not being a 'true' golf psychologist and needing another few years until I become one...well that is just plain ludicrous. Of course I will be better in a few years time because I constantly look to improve myself and keep up to date with the latest theories. I am however already more than good enough to help golfers to improve as I have with my past and present clients.
.

Ok Greg, if you say so. I've explained myself as well as I can. Try not to get offended when someone calls you 'of weak mind' when you give them multiple examples.

Hope it works out for you as its a tough gig.

 

[TheClaw]

It certainly is not a cop out it is a healthier way of thinking about scores and means that confidence is not reliant on individual scores. An ego orientated golfer who plays badly may think "I am a bad golfer" which is a personal attack and serves little purpose but to reduce their confidence and can lead to tension, anger, frustration and doubt. A mastery orientation protects you from this by simply being open and honest with you and your game. You can simply think "I played bad golf today" which is a far more healthy and accurate way of describing your play.

An ego golfer in an attempt to insulate themselves from their own flaws may avoid pushing themselves to improve, could play with a fear of failure and be desperate to succeed. They may avoid situations that challenge their skills and remain safely in a bubble without ever pushing themselves to reach their true potential. A mastery golfer can view poor rounds with curiosity and determination to practice and improve those faults not hide from them. They can play free of pride, fear, ego, and doubt.

I recently read a fantastic example of this. Two national championship figure skaters were observed practicing. One was making a beautiful jumping spin, landing perfectly on their blade facing forwards and gliding away every time. The other was landing half way round landing either sideways or backwards and falling each time. She went home with swollen knees and a bruised backside but came back the next day and did it again, and again, and again. To the untrained eye the first skater was by far the best and yet the second went on win Olympic gold medal. They both had mastered the double twist months ago and both had won national championships with it. The second skater however was practicing a triple twist every day falling again and again until she finally mastered it and took their skating to a whole new level.

Mastery and ego mindsets are not one or the other it is a sliding scale and most people fall somewhere on the scale. I am not saying if you look at your scores as a barometer of success you are 100% ego orientated but it is also not the only way of measuring success. You said that confidence can't come before success but if success takes time and you are only focussed on results as your measure of success then your confidence will be eroded by those perceived failures. If you can take confidence from failure learn lessons from mistakes and use poor rounds as feedback to improve then your confidence will remain intact and more stable over time.

Confidence from failure is a hard sell for me. If any part of your game becomes better you should see your scores improve (on average). However, I do see where you're coming from as golf is a game of many areas so you can have the ball striking round of your life and fail to score well- but if you see yourself as a bad golfer because of one round then you don't understand the game.

A pro playing in round 4 of a major with a chance to win. Ego or mastery? Ego you say....do they think "I am a bad golfer" after a bad score? Doubt it. Why not though and why can't we all do this? Is the answer " I am actually a bad golfer!"? No shame in that, just sort it out starting with the weakest areas. I'm not a fan of the 'medals for participation' mindset.

Moving on- In the moment you realise that you have snap hooked a drive out of bounds are you able to think positively being a "mastery gofer"? Personally, I'm gutted but then I try to recover mentally for the next shot. One shot at a time is the thinking for me not mastery v ego.

As for your sliding scale, where would you put me? I always strive to enjoy my golf but when I play with friends or I'm playing to practice I care less about my score. When I play in a comp it's all about the score- the better it is the happier I am. I got cut last week as I shot a nett 65 on a par 70- confidence was high I had a great time. At the range on Tues I shanked loads of balls and after that confidence was low.

Do I need categorising or would this be complicating things?