Dropping the ego

If the origin post by G_Mulligan was a confused bit of text - if it was an attempt to convince anyone of the expertise it failed and the gobbledegook it succeeded only in amusing me by its unfocussed rambling.

Golfer's are a snapshot of people with a vast range to physical abilities and ages who do things for the widest variety of reasons. So some will be serious and ambitious others merely enjoy the social banter with a few mates while taking a bit of fresh air and mild exercise.

Personally I lean towards to leisure and fun side of golf. Yes I'd like to play better but an hour after a bad round its forgotten usually because I'd have joined in the banter and ribbing from my playing mates. Even though the golf might be bad the 'round' can still be good!

As a golf psychologist I think you've now reached the paralysis of analysis with you post and if that's how you view you golf I think you need the help of a good shrink.
 
drdel said:
If the origin post by G_Mulligan was a confused bit of text - if it was an attempt to convince anyone of the expertise it failed and the gobbledegook it succeeded only in amusing me by its unfocussed rambling.

Golfer's are a snapshot of people with a vast range to physical abilities and ages who do things for the widest variety of reasons. So some will be serious and ambitious others merely enjoy the social banter with a few mates while taking a bit of fresh air and mild exercise.

Personally I lean towards to leisure and fun side of golf. Yes I'd like to play better but an hour after a bad round its forgotten usually because I'd have joined in the banter and ribbing from my playing mates. Even though the golf might be bad the 'round' can still be good!

As a golf psychologist I think you've now reached the paralysis of analysis with you post and if that's how you view you golf I think you need the help of a good shrink.
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No I have gotten through the other side. I had reached that point some months ago but now things are much much simpler, effective and more enjoyable. I am also past caring what others think about me, my game, and my job.

I thought perhaps there would be one or two golfers around here who do struggle with similar issues, have stopped enjoying golf as much as they used too, or become frustrated when they fail to improve. If I can help a few guys enjoy the game more and help understand of how to get the best of their practice time then I am happy to stick around but I will try to make it less gobbledygook in the future.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Or just go out and hit the ball and enjoy it for what it is - a social pastime for us

Once the game is finished you then carry on your normal life - certainly don't "plan" range sessions.
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Do you practice or go to the Range much Phil? If you don't and you've got down to 5 I think we both know that's pretty rare. I was going to use to the Term 'Natural Talent' but according to some on here that doesn't exist, but that's another thread.

I Can relate to what the OP is saying and for me he makes a lot of good points. Personally I get a hell of a lot more enjoyment from the game when I'm playing/scoring well. For this to happen I have to practice, but practice the right things.
Over the years Ive realised I can't just go out and keep playing. I need the practice to play well - to get the enjoyment/satisfaction.

Might seem a bit OTT to some but if I was constantly playing Crap each week I think I'd jack it in.

I think over time its about finding what works best for you. Everyone's different.
 
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G_Mulligan said:
That is a very good point Hobbit.

sorry if I was unclear I know the op was a bit rambling. Yes if your ultimate goal is to improve then of course the handicap is a marker of that improvement, however, that is a long term side effect of doing the right things, practicing the right way, and thinking better both on the range and on the course. By only focussing on your handicap or on the days score you can miss the bigger picture. For example what i am working on has turned my controllable slice/fade into a snap hook. If i was focussed only on my score yesterday I might have tried to drop the swing changes I have made in an effort to keep my ball in play and guide it round for 30 (ish) points then go home frustrated. Instead I stuck with it confident in my long term process and the swing changes. I hit some of the crispest iron shots I have ever made and on the 14th I hit a draw with my driver 260 yards. I have never hit a draw in my life. Yes I snap hooked 3 of the next 4 holes with hybrid or driver and sliced the other (without playing for it) but that one shot is what I have been looking for and backed up what I already knew was that i am now on the right path for long term success.
Click to expand...

Hi Greg
I don't really get the last bit.
If you hit a draw with your driver for the first time ever how can that be the right path for long term success,
espescially as you will not have a clue how you have done it.
So the chances of you repeating it are virtually zero,which means no long term success.
Part of learning is to understand something then you can try to repeat it consistently which
then could lead to success.
I don't think there is any right or wrong way to learn,everybody will be different.
I always believe if you enjoy something your more likely to make a success of it than if you
hate what your doing.
 
pokerjoke said:
Hi Greg
I don't really get the last bit.
If you hit a draw with your driver for the first time ever how can that be the right path for long term success,
espescially as you will not have a clue how you have done it.
So the chances of you repeating it are virtually zero,which means no long term success.
Part of learning is to understand something then you can try to repeat it consistently which
then could lead to success.
I don't think there is any right or wrong way to learn,everybody will be different.
I always believe if you enjoy something your more likely to make a success of it than if you
hate what your doing.
Click to expand...

But I do know how I hit the shot and understand the motion that created it. I can't do it every time on the course but the more I practice and work to stop coming over the top the more consistent it will become. I have had some lessons and I have asked to work on specific things to correct certain flaws and shot shapes. I know it will take time to ingrain but i have patience now, I can enjoy the process and still enjoy playing.

The point I was making is that I scored 25 points because my swing was less predictable than before. I used to always know I was hitting a slice/fade and could make allowances and play for it to a certain extent but it was not very effective I could score 30-32 points on an ok week. This last week I have hit 70% hooks 25% slice and the very occasional beauty down the middle. I could have lost faith in my changes as I have in the past when it seems to be making me worse instead of better but that was always due to short term results. I 100% know this is going to make me a much better golfer in the long run, both because I have discussed it with a coach and also I have seen glimpses of the results that I am working towards.
 
Qwerty said:
Do you practice or go to the Range much Phil? If you don't and you've got down to 5 I think we both know that's pretty rare. I was going to use to the Term 'Natural Talent' but according to some on here that doesn't exist, but that's another thread.

I Can relate to what the OP is saying and for me he makes a lot of good points. Personally I get a hell of a lot more enjoyment from the game when I'm playing/scoring well. For this to happen I have to practice, but practice the right things.
Over the years Ive realised I can't just go out and keep playing. I need the practice to play well - to get the enjoyment/satisfaction.

Might seem a bit OTT to some but if I was constantly playing Crap each week I think I'd jack it in.

I think over time its about finding what works best for you. Everyone's different.
Click to expand...


Don't bother with practise and think last time I was at the range was when it snowed here ( 2 years ago ) - prefer just to go out and play the course

I just treat it as a hobby ( one I enjoy very much ) and I think at some time people make it all too complicated and forget why we are playing

But if you take enjoyment from playing well and you are struggling then it's hard to find enjoyment

We shouldn't let the game get to us - it doesn't pay the bills for us.
 
G_Mulligan said:
Ok firstly I don't mean playing with a chip on your shoulder or being an arrogant person or golfer necessarily. By ego I mean focussed on results. Do you dwell on your score, your results and those of other golfers? Do you care more about how others perceive you as a golfer than perhaps you do yourself? Can you enjoy a game of golf without playing well or even while playing badly? Do you get embarrassed and frustrated by poor shots/holes/rounds?

This was me. I started to fall out of love with golf about 10 weeks ago. My scores were not coming down, I was trying to avoid mistakes especially when playing in comps with strangers. I felt constantly judged by other golfers especially doing what I do and yet having such a high handicap. I made a 2-3 week neck injury last 8 weeks. I stopped coming on this very forum because I was sick of being judged (real and imagined) based on that bloody number that defined me as a golfer.

Last week I went out in a comp with two players I have never me before I shot 102 of the indigo's over the round I lost three balls oob, one in the water and shot a 12 on the par 5 17th with 4 shots from one bunker. I can honestly say I have never ever enjoyed golf more. I no longer cared what they thought, I no longer cared about my short term score on any given day. I have spent the last month reading and absorbing everything I can find on Flow, Kaizen, Mindfulness and anything and everything else I can get my hands on in that area. The most important thing I have learned is that Mastery beats Ego in the long run.

Mastery orientated people care about the process of long term improvement not quick fixes and short term scores. A mastery mindset will insulate you from what others think and having to impress. Mastery will make your practice sessions far more focussed and effective and your golf way way more enjoyable. Golf has this overwhelming undeniable yard stick that follows you everywhere. What is the first question you get asked by other golfers or friends/family members after a round..."how did you play?" followed in a close second by "What did you shoot?" What do people ask when they find out you are a golfer "What is your handicap?" The ego trap in laid everywhere and you must make a conscious decision to ignore it.

In a separate thread someone was asking if something another golfer was trying had worked, had it reduced his or anyone else's handicap. Someone else claimed they were gullable suckers wasting money and yet another called it 'guff'. His reply was an almost perfect reply of a mastery mindset. His handicap has gone up but he did not avoid the question. He is enjoying golf more than ever and more importantly enjoying the process of long term improvement. He is dedicated to this new way of thinking and playing and confident it will work in the long run. I would wish him luck but he genuinely does not need it.
Click to expand...

Process of long term improvement? What a cop out. Basically with that we are saying "I'm playing poorly now and have nothing to show for it but I will (hopefully) get better at some point". Or maybe it's not actually working? People who are trying NGT and the like are 100% hoping to shoot a better score in order to find happiness (in that order). The only people that don't like talking about scores are those who shoot bad ones.

Why not fix your flaws now. Play better now. Score better now. Be happier and more confident now?

Golf really isn't that mystical. It's like anything, get better at it and you will be more confident in doing it. Confidence can't come first.

When someone asks you how you played there is a way to quantify it...your score. You can still answer with "I scored poorly but I enjoyed it". No shame there....certainly no ego trap.
 
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TheClaw said:
Process of long term improvement? What a cop out. Basically with that we are saying "I'm playing poorly now and have nothing to show for it but I will (hopefully) get better at some point". Or maybe it's not actually working? People who are trying NGT and the like are 100% hoping to shoot a better score in order to find happiness (in that order). The only people that don't like talking about scores are those who shoot bad ones.

Why not fix your flaws now. Play better now. Score better now. Be happier and more confident now?

Golf really isn't that mystical. It's like anything, get better at it and you will be more confident in doing it. Confidence can't come first.

When someone asks you how you played there is a way to quantify it...your score. You can still answer with "I scored poorly but I enjoyed it". No shame there....certainly no ego trap.
Click to expand...

It certainly is not a cop out it is a healthier way of thinking about scores and means that confidence is not reliant on individual scores. An ego orientated golfer who plays badly may think "I am a bad golfer" which is a personal attack and serves little purpose but to reduce their confidence and can lead to tension, anger, frustration and doubt. A mastery orientation protects you from this by simply being open and honest with you and your game. You can simply think "I played bad golf today" which is a far more healthy and accurate way of describing your play.

An ego golfer in an attempt to insulate themselves from their own flaws may avoid pushing themselves to improve, could play with a fear of failure and be desperate to succeed. They may avoid situations that challenge their skills and remain safely in a bubble without ever pushing themselves to reach their true potential. A mastery golfer can view poor rounds with curiosity and determination to practice and improve those faults not hide from them. They can play free of pride, fear, ego, and doubt.

I recently read a fantastic example of this. Two national championship figure skaters were observed practicing. One was making a beautiful jumping spin, landing perfectly on their blade facing forwards and gliding away every time. The other was landing half way round landing either sideways or backwards and falling each time. She went home with swollen knees and a bruised backside but came back the next day and did it again, and again, and again. To the untrained eye the first skater was by far the best and yet the second went on win Olympic gold medal. They both had mastered the double twist months ago and both had won national championships with it. The second skater however was practicing a triple twist every day falling again and again until she finally mastered it and took their skating to a whole new level.

Mastery and ego mindsets are not one or the other it is a sliding scale and most people fall somewhere on the scale. I am not saying if you look at your scores as a barometer of success you are 100% ego orientated but it is also not the only way of measuring success. You said that confidence can't come before success but if success takes time and you are only focussed on results as your measure of success then your confidence will be eroded by those perceived failures. If you can take confidence from failure learn lessons from mistakes and use poor rounds as feedback to improve then your confidence will remain intact and more stable over time.
 
I know exactly where the OP is coming from, what he is referring to by having an EGO and understand that some people want to practice and some just play.

My take on the 'ego' are the devil and angel sitting on your shoulders as you play. The devil being the one telling you to play for the gap in the trees 20yds ahead just because you can see the flag and the angel being the one that says just take medicine and get the ball back on the fairway.

The devil and the angel, that is you, that is your ego talking to you when you're on the course which one you listen to is of course entirely up to you.
 
Greg, I think you are the proof that some people shouldn't go near competitions until they get a decent handle on the game. You seem to have taken the handicap thing and made a noose for yourself. You see it as a weight that is keeping you down from reaching your true potential.

If people want to improve their game then they should indeed cast the handicap aside and identify weaknesses in their game. Go and focus on those and leave trying to compile good scores for further down the line. When someone asks how you are getting on, tell them I am just practising.

I have posted on here before my belief that people starting out should start with an 18 handicap and should also stay well clear of medals. All medals do is beat new golfers around the head and give them humiliating scores in the treble figures. All this does is damage the new player and some people find it hard to control these pressures of trying to shoot better scores.

What I don't understand is that you claim to be a golf psychologist. Some people including myself questioned your ability to be a good golf psychologist if you hadn't even got a basic level of ability in golf. That is ultimately what the badge of handicaps. It gives golfers a general idea of your golfing potential. Anyway, I can look past that but your comments in the opening post is what worries me in in your claim to be a golf psychologist.

What kind of golf psychologist would hide away for 8 weeks with a 3 week injury because his scores were not improving, fearful that people were judging him, real or imagined. If you walk onto the first tee and tell someone your a golf psychologist, you can sure as hell bet this guy will be judging your round.

"I was trying to avoid making mistakes in comps in front of strangers''

Again another quote that tells me, you probably shouldn't be playing comps as its doing nothing but stunting your own development. Until you reach a level, you either no longer care what others think or you have enough confidence in your own ability to get the ball around the course, them stick 'to practise.

You seem to get a bit mind melted believing that this mastery this is the mind insulator and its long term goal is better than short target orientated methods of improvement. Maybe so, but surely the kaizen (Toyota) method of improvement would actually be small measurable improvements over time that build a large scale overall improvement.

All in all Greg, I think you would have been better off down at the practice ground for the last month rather than trying to find golfing solace in psychology books.
 
garyinderry said:
You seem to get a bit mind melted believing that this mastery this is the mind insulator and its long term goal is better than short target orientated methods of improvement. Maybe so, but surely the kaizen (Toyota) method of improvement would actually be small measurable improvements over time that build a large scale overall improvement.
Click to expand...


You've Just blown my brains there Gaz. I think I need to go for a lie down.
 
There are many different types of golfer - I think the first priority is to identify what type you are, then you can plan/play accordingly.

#simples :thup:
 
Qwerty said:
You've Just blown my brains there Gaz. I think I need to go for a lie down.
Click to expand...

Lol, its a very simple yet powerful concept. Small incremental increase in performance daily, leads to large overall improvements over time. This can be done in life, business or even golf. :thup:
 
garyinderry said:
Lol, its a very simple yet powerful concept. Small incremental increase in performance daily, leads to large overall improvements over time. This can be done in life, business or even golf. :thup:
Click to expand...

Or put another way:-

You have to fight and win a lot of battles, to help you win the war.
 
when i started playing, it was because i enjoyed it and had a laugh with the guys i played with. I didn't even think about handicaps or worry about my score until i was down much much lower. I don't enjoy playing badly, but i do always enjoy a game and the company of my playing partners.
 
garyinderry said:
Greg, I think you are the proof that some people shouldn't go near competitions until they get a decent handle on the game. You seem to have taken the handicap thing and made a noose for yourself. You see it as a weight that is keeping you down from reaching your true potential.

If people want to improve their game then they should indeed cast the handicap aside and identify weaknesses in their game. Go and focus on those and leave trying to compile good scores for further down the line. When someone asks how you are getting on, tell them I am just practising.

I have posted on here before my belief that people starting out should start with an 18 handicap and should also stay well clear of medals. All medals do is beat new golfers around the head and give them humiliating scores in the treble figures. All this does is damage the new player and some people find it hard to control these pressures of trying to shoot better scores.

What I don't understand is that you claim to be a golf psychologist. Some people including myself questioned your ability to be a good golf psychologist if you hadn't even got a basic level of ability in golf. That is ultimately what the badge of handicaps. It gives golfers a general idea of your golfing potential. Anyway, I can look past that but your comments in the opening post is what worries me in in your claim to be a golf psychologist.

What kind of golf psychologist would hide away for 8 weeks with a 3 week injury because his scores were not improving, fearful that people were judging him, real or imagined. If you walk onto the first tee and tell someone your a golf psychologist, you can sure as hell bet this guy will be judging your round.

"I was trying to avoid making mistakes in comps in front of strangers''

Again another quote that tells me, you probably shouldn't be playing comps as its doing nothing but stunting your own development. Until you reach a level, you either no longer care what others think or you have enough confidence in your own ability to get the ball around the course, them stick 'to practise.

You seem to get a bit mind melted believing that this mastery this is the mind insulator and its long term goal is better than short target orientated methods of improvement. Maybe so, but surely the kaizen (Toyota) method of improvement would actually be small measurable improvements over time that build a large scale overall improvement.

All in all Greg, I think you would have been better off down at the practice ground for the last month rather than trying to find golfing solace in psychology books.
Click to expand...

That was entirely my problem, I could not bring together the golf psychologist and the golfer into one person. I understood and believed what I have learned and taught over the years but could not bring it into my own game. I could not get past my own ego as a golfer. I constantly felt judged by others and myself at my ability which was made worse because of what I do. Those 8 weeks away were a low point but they were necessary to come out stronger and more balanced on the other side. Yes golfers may still be judging me but I no longer care, I know who I am, what I can do as a golf psychologist and where I am heading as a golfer.

With regards to practice I was practicing in the wrong way, again I was practicing with an ego. I had little patience with myself and was overly critical with mistakes. I was often angry, frustrated and impatient that all my practice was doing nothing for my game. I would practice with driver but if anyone came near my bay I put it away and got out my wedge so they would see me hit good shots instead of bad ones. I would never, ever practice in the bunker because it is right in front of the club house and putting green and too many golfers would see me struggle. Those things no longer bother me, I have an inner confidence now to know it does not matter where I am but the direction I am heading.

With regards to the Kaizen, yes it involves small incremental improvements doing the small things right every day which builds up over time into constant measurable improvement. Thinking clearly, focussing on the task, having patience with yourself is all part of the process. If every day you practice with a clear calm mind it will ingrain and be there on the course. If your practice is sloppy and unfocussed, tense and impatient that will come back on the course too.

Interesting that you say I made a noose for myself (which perhaps I did) but also say that you were one of the people who questioned my ability to be a good psychologist if I was not very good at golf. To an extent I was desperate to prove you and others wrong. That I would get my handicap down to shut you up and perhaps more people would listen to my advice on here. Then I realised it makes no difference. I will have a low handicap one day but it will not make one iota of difference to my talents as a psychologist. My advice will be the same and my ability to help people will not improve. Perhaps more people will be willing to take my advice but the advice will be the same. I am no longer playing and practicing for others, now I am doing it for myself and because I enjoy it not because I feel obligated as a psychologist.
 
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