DQ'd from Competition under rule 3.3b

[Orikoru]

I take it you don’t enter any math play competitions then?

Have done yeah - the IGMember app tells you who receives shots and how many so you don't need to work it out and risk getting it wrong.

What happens if your terminal is down ? Lost internet ? The CSV has issues

It’s simple - minimal requirement on your scorecard - gross scores , handicap ( course/playing ) , sign the scorecard

Most clubs now provide a label that is put on the card so it’s all worked out for you but it’s not really that much hard work is it to enter a couple of numbers in a couple of boxes.

Bit of a strawman argument that. I've never seen the terminal down and the chance of me not having internet on my phone for longer than ten minutes is slim to none. Even then I don't see why I need to tell them what my handicap is. Seems backwards to me. They should have that on record somewhere.

It may not be 'hard work' but it's just so unnecessary. All it does is give you rope to hang yourself with since there is potential to get it wrong. As the OP has done. I don't see any benefit in this day and age to requiring that to be on there. All it does is prove to them you know how to open the app and see what your own handicap is??

 

[doublebogey7]

I wonder whether this could be up for consideration in the next round of rules changes. The player has, under WHS, lost responsibility for making their own handicap changes. So there is no longer a need for the player to be responsible for writing it in the card as far as I can see.

 

[wjemather]

Perhaps it's worth noting that rules of golf apply independently of the handicap system, and/or any handicapping/competitions technology, being used.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Have done yeah - the IGMember app tells you who receives shots and how many so you don't need to work it out and risk getting it wrong.


Bit of a strawman argument that. I've never seen the terminal down and the chance of me not having internet on my phone for longer than ten minutes is slim to none. Even then I don't see why I need to tell them what my handicap is. Seems backwards to me. They should have that on record somewhere.

It may not be 'hard work' but it's just so unnecessary. All it does is give you rope to hang yourself with since there is potential to get it wrong. As the OP has done. I don't see any benefit in this day and age to requiring that to be on there. All it does is prove to them you know how to open the app and see what your own handicap is??

So when it comes to the H4H day and we see your card with no handicap on then its a DQ ?

Basically you can’t be bothered to do the basic simple requirements and you expect others to do the leg work for you - each club has their own selfish players

 

[Colin L]

And Course Handicap

Just to be a smarty pants, it has to come via the course handicap to get to the playing handicap.

 

[Backache]

I must say when most scorecards just state handicap and there are three different potential handicaps to use.
The online rules of gold as far as I can see just state you have to put in your handicap but don't actually state which one to put in.
You can see why it creates confusion and is a very poor system.

 

[Orikoru]

So when it comes to the H4H day and we see your card with no handicap on then its a DQ ?

Basically you can’t be bothered to do the basic simple requirements and you expect others to do the leg work for you - each club has their own selfish players

That's not the same since I don't imagine we'll have the benefit of a computer compiling and working out scores. I'm just saying the god-knows-how-many-year-old requirement to write your handicap on a card is somewhat obsolete now that terminals and apps exist. As has been mentioned in this topic, I'm sure it's something they might rethink in a future rules review.

I can easily copy the number from my app to the card, I just think if somebody forgets or writes the 'playing handicap' in the 'index' box by mistake, it's unbelievably harsh to disqualify them in this day and age where the computer works out your correct score completely irrespective of what you've written in pencil on a piece of card. That's all. And if you disagree with that then you're part of the problem and why people struggle to drag golf into the 21st century.

 

[D-S]

I guess it depends on whether the number written down is clearly indicated as being Course Handicap? If it's just, say, a number written in the PH box, then I suppose you're asking for trouble?

I agree that you are asking for trouble. I assume not DQ as the course Handicap is on the scorecard, however can you put the 'trouble' in the conditions of competition?

 

[rosecott]

I must say when most scorecards just state handicap and there are three different potential handicaps to use.
The online rules of gold as far as I can see just state you have to put in your handicap but don't actually state which one to put in.
You can see why it creates confusion and is a very poor system.

CONGU has laid down that Course Handicap must be on the card to avoid DQ, so that is the only one that needs to be on the card.

I suspect that most clubs - as ours has done - have revised their cards to show CH and PH with no need for HI. The advice as to what should be on the card could have been done much earlier.

 

[Backache]

CONGU has laid down that Course Handicap must be on the card to avoid DQ, so that is the only one that needs to be on the card.

I suspect that most clubs - as ours has done - have revised their cards to show CH and PH with no need for HI. The advice as to what should be on the card could have been done much earlier.

I don't disagree with what you are saying , I just think it has become avoidably messy.
Part of the purpose of WHS was to make competitive golf more accessible to the neophyte.
Now the rules of golf state you have to enter your handicap but not which handicap.
It has confused members of the forum who almost by definition are enthusiastic about their golf.
The interpretation of the rule and disqualification has been incorrectly applied in this case and apparently initially caused confusion in a forum member who is very knowledgeable about the rules.
What on earth is the casual person who is new to golf to make of it.
What purpose in a closed club competition when the club has full access to the handicaps does entering a handicap serve?
Why is it not clearly laid out in the rules of golf what handicap one should be entering rather than by Congu?

 

[Foxholer]

.....
Part of the purpose of WHS was to make competitive golf more accessible to the neophyte.
...

Oh, the irony!

 

[wjemather]

CONGU has laid down that Course Handicap must be on the card to avoid DQ, so that is the only one that needs to be on the card.

I suspect that most clubs - as ours has done - have revised their cards to show CH and PH with no need for HI. The advice as to what should be on the card could have been done much earlier.

The guidance came out long before WHS implementation and clubs' resultant need to design/order new scorecards. There was no need for it to have been any earlier.
There was also guidance that cards should have 3 boxes, and I've come across almost no clubs that haven't followed this nor any that have subsequently changed to one or two boxes.

 

[ScottishPeasant]

new to this forum (so please be nice lol) having read all the comments i thought I would share my thoughts. Where I play and heavily involved in the Gents section our previous M&H would disqualify for incorrect Handicap beit index or course (as WHS wasnt a thing then) with no hesitation, however since WHS and more importantly Covid we have relaxed the rules as its all done on App\i-Pad in the clubhouse. We do however ask players to also submit the hard card if they have issues inputting scores due to connectivity issues etc. We do however have some members that Digital is just not for them so we dont exclude them and are happy to input 'old school' cards for them. These cards are always filled in correctly however the quality of cards being completed by the ones that have done it correctly digital but still post the cards are another story. From inability to correctly write a name to keeping in one column seems to be a challenge. Sorry think ive gone off topic but wanted to share my thoughts.

 

[wjemather]

I don't disagree with what you are saying , I just think it has become avoidably messy.
Part of the purpose of WHS was to make competitive golf more accessible to the neophyte.
Now the rules of golf state you have to enter your handicap but not which handicap.
It has confused members of the forum who almost by definition are enthusiastic about their golf.
The interpretation of the rule and disqualification has been incorrectly applied in this case and apparently initially caused confusion in a forum member who is very knowledgeable about the rules.
What on earth is the casual person who is new to golf to make of it.
What purpose in a closed club competition when the club has full access to the handicaps does entering a handicap serve?
Why is it not clearly laid out in the rules of golf what handicap one should be entering rather than by Congu?

Enthusiasm for golf doesn't necessarily translate to eagerness to read and understand any of the abundant guidance and educational materials, let alone the actual rules and interpretations. Unfortunately, it would appear that this also applies to a small number of club committees, who are also likely to have badly/wrongly educated their members, if they have done so at all.

Quite simply, because WHS is not the only handicap system.

 

[3offTheTee]

This section is called ”Rules of Golf”. There are some extremely knowledgeable people on here probably around 6 who if they said that is what the Rule is I would accept.

There are also many who know the rules but not to the same degree.

There are a few who feel they know better, cannot be bothered, cannot accept what is said by people who know better and are either stirring or just awkward and do not accept the position.

Those people probably know who they are and it occurs regularly. I feel they would be better trying to learn more rules, accept the situation from more qualified people some being referees.

 

[Backache]

Enthusiasm for golf doesn't necessarily translate to eagerness to read and understand any of the abundant guidance and educational materials, let alone the actual rules and interpretations. Unfortunately, it would appear that this also applies to a small number of club committees, who are also likely to have badly/wrongly educated their members, if they have done so at all.

Quite simply, because WHS is not the only handicap system.

An abundance of material can actually be more confusing single sources with greater clarity are far more functional.
The point I'm making is that the requirement to put the handicap in is no longer necessary in most places as access to handicaps is by computer.
With different handicapping systems and different handicaps the system is confusing to many club golfers and apparently to some committees.
Quite a few rules of golf havebeen simplified in recent years it is high time this one was as well.

 

[Orikoru]

This section is called ”Rules of Golf”. There are some extremely knowledgeable people on here probably around 6 who if they said that is what the Rule is I would accept.

There are also many who know the rules but not to the same degree.

There are a few who feel they know better, cannot be bothered, cannot accept what is said by people who know better and are either stirring or just awkward and do not accept the position.

Those people probably know who they are and it occurs regularly. I feel they would be better trying to learn more rules, accept the situation from more qualified people some being referees.

I have always believed the purpose of a forum is discussion. i.e. this is a rules forum - to discuss rules. Not just asked and answered, what is the rule, here it is, end of - that would be boring. If a ruling provokes further discussion then why not roll with it?

 

[SteveW86]

All of our Sunday morning comps are run as a shot gun start, so everyone in the bar at the same time afterwards for the prize giving. Results are worked out manually by a couple of volunteers and then announced by the captain. Having the correct info on the cards is a requirement for this, usually lots of shouting around to check details are correct.

Cards are then entered into the system by the office afterwards for "official" purposes. There are occasionally mistakes in the results, but as the prizes are credit on your bar card these are easily rectifiable.

 

[SteveW86]

So when it comes to the H4H day and we see your card with no handicap on then its a DQ ?

Basically you can’t be bothered to do the basic simple requirements and you expect others to do the leg work for you - each club has their own selfish players

Remind me who does the cards at H4H?

 

[Foxholer]

new to this forum (so please be nice lol) having read all the comments i thought I would share my thoughts. Where I play and heavily involved in the Gents section our previous M&H would disqualify for incorrect Handicap beit index or course (as WHS wasnt a thing then) with no hesitation, however since WHS and more importantly Covid we have relaxed the rules as its all done on App\i-Pad in the clubhouse. We do however ask players to also submit the hard card if they have issues inputting scores due to connectivity issues etc. We do however have some members that Digital is just not for them so we dont exclude them and are happy to input 'old school' cards for them. These cards are always filled in correctly however the quality of cards being completed by the ones that have done it correctly digital but still post the cards are another story. From inability to correctly write a name to keeping in one column seems to be a challenge. Sorry think ive gone off topic but wanted to share my thoughts.

That was certainly also the case back when I was the Comp Secy - in the days when the club PC was a 2086 based one with no internet access! Deciphering cards was a challenge!