DQ or not?

[Hosel Fade]

isn't it silly that golf has this rule. the formality of handing in his card didn't change his score and how well he played.
i know the blazer brigade here will go nuts but i dont know why we can't all apply a bit of common sense and tell him to bring his card to the club asap so they can close the comp.

Because his actions are being a pain for someone who volunteers their time for the good of the club. DQ for my money, scorecard not in within 30 minutes of holing out (which is more than sufficient imo to return a scorecard as soon as possible).

 

[bobmac]

If the committee haven't set a time for closing the comp and you haven't closed the comp, how can he be late handing in his card?

A word in his ear not to do it again and suggest to the committee they introduce a rule that closes the comp a set time after the last group finish say 1 hour.

Far better outcome for all concerned as I believe a DQ should only be used as a last resort and for the gravest offences.

 

[chrisd]

If the committee haven't set a time for closing the comp and you haven't closed the comp, how can he be late handing in his card?

A word in his ear not to do it again and suggest to the committee they introduce a rule that closes the comp a set time after the last group finish say 1 hour.

This ^^^^^^^ for me, it doesnt appear that he broke any rule as one never existed although i wouldn't specifically tell him, id just email to all or/and put up a notice with clarification of the requirement to hand the card in by a specific time and its job done.

Why make it more difficult than it need be?

 

[Imurg]

Whilst i agree with the majority - let it go and let him know - the problem lies with the "as soon as possible" part of the rule.
Is it possible that he could have handed the card in sooner?
Obviously the answer is yes.
Taking the card home and then bringing it back isn't "as soon as possible"
Where is the box for the cards.?
Ours is right next to the terminal so there is no excuse for not dropping it in within seconds of entering the score...

As its not going to matter prize/handicap wise, I'd implement a DQ and then make it clear to the club that "as soon as possible" means just that.
Not an hour or two later...
In another area , sometimes the rules say that you must place a ball "as near as possible" - there's little wriggle room on that, the ball needs to be as close as you can get it, not a foot or two away if there is a closer point.
Same goes for returning the card.
If the rules say it just be done as soon as possible then two hours after finishing doesn't equate to that phrase.

 

[bobmac]

So imagine you tee off in a comp at 07.30, finish at 11.00, go home (12.00), realise you still have your card, return to the club (1.30) when other golfers are still teeing off in the comp, are you DQ'd?

 

[chellie]

So imagine you tee off in a comp at 07.30, finish at 11.00, go home (12.00), realise you still have your card, return to the club (1.30) when other golfers are still teeing off in the comp, are you DQ'd?

No, because the competition is still ongoing.

 

[Imurg]

Well, what do the rules say..?
Could the card have reasonably be handed in sooner.?
No time is specified as there are many possible variables but, surely, "as soon as possible" means that, not 2-3 hours later after the card has been taken home..
Part of finishing a round is checking cards, signing cards, handing them in.....Not going home and coming back 3 hours later...

 

[bobmac]

Well, what do the rules say..?
Could the card have reasonably be handed in sooner.?
No time is specified as there are many possible variables but, surely, "as soon as possible" means that, not 2-3 hours later after the card has been taken home..
Part of finishing a round is checking cards, signing cards, handing them in.....Not going home and coming back 3 hours later...

How would you keep checks on when people put their card in the box?

 

[Imurg]

You rely on the integrity of the player.
In the OP, the cards have been collected. If your card isn't in the box when they're collected then you haven't returned it as soon as possible..
Am i wrong?
For what it's worth I broadly agree with you Bob.
But there has to be a line..

 

[bobmac]

But there has to be a line..

That's the point in the OP, there isn't one.
ASAP isnt a line.

That's why I suggested 1 hour after the last group finish.

 

[Imurg]

That's the point in the OP, there isn't one.
ASAP isnt a line.

That's why I suggested 1 hour after the last group finish.

So, in Summer, you tee off at 6am.
You finish at 9.30.
The last group finishes at 9.30pm....
Would handing your card in at 10.29pm be considered "as soon as possible"..?

 

[sawtooth]

So, in Summer, you tee off at 6am.
You finish at 9.30.
The last group finishes at 9.30pm....
Would handing your card in at 10.29pm be considered "as soon as possible"..?

Some clubs have the same comp that spans the whole weekend. So to take the example above to the extreme you could play Friday evening and return card by Sunday.

I didn't DQ. the player this time but will propose maybe 1 hour time limit after final group comes in. Will see what the consensus of opinion is when discussed as a committee.

I'm all for being fair and consistent.

 

[bobmac]

The problem would arise if the player and the card checker disagree with the term ASAP.
The card checker might say 5 minutes and the player might say 10. Who's right?
eg
The player finishes in a downpour, the scorecard is bearly legible so the player has a shower puts on dry clothes writes out a clean scorecard, gets it signed and puts it in the box (30-40 minutes). ASAP?

As for your example, it's unlikely the card box would be opened at that time of night anyway, more likely the next day when it wouldn't matter when you handed it in.

 

[doublebogey7]

I would advice against a time limit, for starters the RoG do not allow such a local rule and secondly you are tying yourself down. The R&A have not specified a time in their rules for a reason.

 

[Imurg]

As soon as possible gives you time to do the things you might need to do before you're able to return the card
Things like putting your clubs away, getting changed etc which may all need to be done before entering the clubhouse to enter your scores..
You can't classify going home as one of those...

 

[Fish]

Unbelievable Jeff!!!

 

[rulefan]

the RoG do not allow such a local rule .

Where does it say that?

The R&A/USGA give permission in particular circumstances for many local rules which don't appear in the book.
I understand there may be reasons why this isn't a good idea but have nor seen it expressly mentioned.

As our box is kept next to the bar, we had a rule that the card had to be in the box before the bar closed. The cards are checked by the pro the following morning. However, when the bar hours were adjusted to be related to demand, the rule was changed to 'as soon as possible'.

Of course, 6-6d states the card should be "returned to the committee". I wonder in how many club competitions are 'the committee' present for the whole competition and for maybe 1/2 an hour afterwards. If the committee don't pick the cards up until the following morning, what do those words mean?

 

[clubchamp98]

I always go by whats on the card. There is no set time but normally people just leave the card in the box immediately after entering their score.

For arguments sake I may not have played today so it may have been tomorrow or even Tuesday before I go to the club to collect the cards. Although this is pretty rare tbh. Its usually the same day/evening of the comp.

My club has a 30min rule after your finishing time so at Grange he would be DQ.
You need to set some sort of time so all players know where they stand.
This guy could come back to you and say show me the rule and if you can't then his score must stand.
Put a notice up by box to explain your rule I.e. All cards must be in box no later than 30 mins after last game have finished !they all know then.

 

[Foxholer]

Some clubs have the same comp that spans the whole weekend. So to take the example above to the extreme you could play Friday evening and return card by Sunday.

I didn't DQ. the player this time but will propose maybe 1 hour time limit after final group comes in. Will see what the consensus of opinion is when discussed as a committee.

I'm all for being fair and consistent.

That seems like the most sensible method! It still favours the early starters to the extent that they have a larger buffer to 'retrieve a blunder' but, from a practical point of view, that's always going to be the case. As long as you publish the 'rules' then there should be no argument either way. You should also specify that the card is considered 'returned to the committee' as soon as it is deposited in the (locked) box - or equivalent. This covers the, unfortunate but part of The Rules, situation where the card isn't completed correctly or as required. If the 'return' mechanism is a box, then it's worth putting a reminder to prevent the occasional, but inevitable, faux-as - normally the player forgetting to sign!

 

[Hobbit]

Tough one.

If you're going through the cards and find one without a signature its a DQ. Surely if you also can't find a card it has to be the same thing...?

There's also the problem that if it gets out that you're ignoring some rules for certain people you'll get the sticklers going ape, and also the next person that screws up will demand a concession.

As painful as it is, and a little unfair, DQ.