DQ or not?

[sawtooth]

We have player entry at our place, a player entered his score Ok but then went home with his card.

So at home now processing scores and notice said card to be missing.

Player did realise his mistake and popped back to the club with card but after i went home.

Usually a dead cert DQ but the player entry system muddies water a bit as he entered score on computer straight after round.

What's the ruling on this?

 

[Imurg]

Card is King isn't it?
No card = no score... Especially once they've gone home..

 

[clubchamp98]

We have player entry at our place, a player entered his score Ok but then went home with his card.

So at home now processing scores and notice said card to be missing.

Player did realise his mistake and popped back to the club with card but after i went home.

Usually a dead cert DQ but the player entry system muddies water a bit as he entered score on computer straight after round.

What's the ruling on this?

Do you have a set time all players know box is emptied.
If so DQ
If not no

problem is the computer system is only to help h/cap sec.
all golfers know you must put your card in the box as it has your markers signature on to attest to your score.

on the computer it's just the guy putting the scores in.

As I understand it you can't be DQed for a mistake on the computer but you can for a mistake on the card depending what that mistake is.

 

[chellie]

DQ .

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If the card isn't present as you are closing the comp then it's a DQ - especially as the player has left the club with the card

 

[sawtooth]

Card is King isn't it?
No card = no score... Especially once they've gone home..

Yeah it is, I cant take his score without seeing his card but what is a reasonable time to hand it in?

I was the last but one group today so waited until the last group came in, I gathered all the cards and then retired to the bar. I think when I was in the bar when the player returned to the club with the card, at around 4pm.

The last group entered scores at 15.46

The player whose card was returned late entered his score 1.56

I can wait till tomorrow to process scores when I have all the cards (no DQ).

Or DQ him now and close the comp.

Its not a winning score but I still want to handle it the right way and be consistent with the ruling. This is the first time this has happened to me.

 

[Fish]

Surely it depends on when you close the comp, if it's not closed and the card is retrievable then no, if you feel you must close the comp before you can see/check the card, then it's a DQ imo.

 

[fundy]

Yeah it is, I cant take his score without seeing his card but what is a reasonable time to hand it in?

I was the last but one group today so waited until the last group came in, I gathered all the cards and then retired to the bar. I think when I was in the bar when the player returned to the club with the card, at around 4pm.

The last group entered scores at 15.46

The player whose card was returned late entered his score 1.56

I can wait till tomorrow to process scores when I have all the cards (no DQ).

Or DQ him now and close the comp.

Its not a winning score but I still want to handle it the right way and be consistent with the ruling. This is the first time this has happened to me.

For me, if you havent closed the comp and dont have a rule for when it closes when he returns his card you havent closed the comp then his card is fine and should be used. if youve already closed the comp then he is DQed. Going forward maybe easiest if you define when the comp is to be closed

 

[sawtooth]

Do you have a set time all players know box is emptied.
If so DQ
If not no

problem is the computer system is only to help h/cap sec.
all golfers know you must put your card in the box as it has your markers signature on to attest to your score.

on the computer it's just the guy putting the scores in.

As I understand it you can't be DQed for a mistake on the computer but you can for a mistake on the card depending what that mistake is.

I always go by whats on the card. There is no set time but normally people just leave the card in the box immediately after entering their score.

For arguments sake I may not have played today so it may have been tomorrow or even Tuesday before I go to the club to collect the cards. Although this is pretty rare tbh. Its usually the same day/evening of the comp.

 

[sawtooth]

For me, if you havent closed the comp and dont have a rule for when it closes when he returns his card you havent closed the comp then his card is fine and should be used. if youve already closed the comp then he is DQed. Going forward maybe easiest if you define when the comp is to be closed

I will look into this, it wont make a big difference on this occasion as the score is no where close to a winning score. But I can imagine it being a big problem if this was a board comp and the score mattered.

I want to go ahead and close the comp now with his score as valid (provisionally) but will check the card in the morning and undo if necessary. It will only affect him if I need to do that anyway.

Would that be acceptable do you think?

I just checked his exact handicap and it cant impact his playing handicap either way should he happen to play tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I will look into this, it wont make a big difference on this occasion as the score is no where close to a winning score. But I can imagine it being a big problem if this was a board comp and the score mattered.

I want to go ahead and close the comp now with his score as valid (provisionally) but will check the card in the morning and undo if necessary. It will only affect him if I need to do that anyway.

Would that be acceptable do you think?

I just checked his exact handicap and it cant impact his playing handicap either way should he happen to play tomorrow.

If you are intending on closing the comp now and don't have his card then he must be DQ as you don't have his card to clarify his score

If you wait and allow him to enter his score card the next day then you create a precedent

For me he didn't hand his card on when he completed his round and left the golf club. You have picked the cards up with the intention of closing the comp and that's what you should do

 

[fundy]

i assume hes now returned the card and you havent closed the comp? then yes personally id now close the comp with his score counting. expect some of the stricter ones on here wont see it the same way though

 

[sawtooth]

If you are intending on closing the comp now and don't have his card then he must be DQ as you don't have his card to clarify his score

If you wait and allow him to enter his score card the next day then you create a precedent

For me he didn't hand his card on when he completed his round and left the golf club. You have picked the cards up with the intention of closing the comp and that's what you should do

He returned his card 20 mins after the last group entered their scores. I must have just missed him.

 

[fundy]

He returned his card 20 mins after the comp closed. I must have just missed him.

define the comp had closed? because you were saying above you hadnt closed the comp yet

 

[sawtooth]

define the comp had closed? because you were saying above you hadnt closed the comp yet

I just corrected that as I knew it would be ambiguous. He returned his card 20 mins after the last group entered their scores.

The comp has not been closed/processed yet. I was just about to do that when I noticed the discrepancy, scores entered versus cards collected did not match up.

 

[fundy]

I just corrected that as I knew it would be ambiguous. He returned his card 20 mins after the last group entered their scores.

The comp has not been closed/processed yet. I was just about to do that when I noticed the discrepancy, scores entered versus cards collected did not match up.

no DQ for me then, his cards good as you havent closed the comp, get some rules in place for what constitutes closing the comp in future

 

[sawtooth]

Clear DQ, the entering of the score into a computer system does not absolve the player of the responsibility under rule 6-6b to return the scorecard to the committee as "soon as possible" following the end of the round.

Yeah its the "soon as possible" bit I am wrestling with right now. He entered his score within 15 mins of finishing his round. Went home with his card, realised his mistake, returned to the club a couple of hours later and handed his card in 20 mins after the last group finishing.

 

[rulefan]

It is up to the Committee (presumably you) to specify in the Conditions of Competition when the card is deemed to be returned (eg when the player has left the returning area, put his card in a box or left the computer terminal area NB that does not involve entering a score). The Committee must also specify when a competition is deemed to be closed.

In the apparent absence of both those pieces of information, the player should not be DQd because of a fault of the Committee.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-06,d6-6b-4

 

[hovis]

isn't it silly that golf has this rule. the formality of handing in his card didn't change his score and how well he played.
i know the blazer brigade here will go nuts but i dont know why we can't all apply a bit of common sense and tell him to bring his card to the club asap so they can close the comp.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yeah its the "soon as possible" bit I am wrestling with right now. He entered his score within 15 mins of finishing his round. Went home with his card, realised his mistake, returned to the club a couple of hours later and handed his card in 20 mins after the last group finishing.

In this case I'm not sure why you are struggling, he had ample time to return the scorecard within the defined time and failed to do so. I am also not sure why you refer to the entering of the score, as this is not relevant to your decision.