DQ or not?

[sawtooth]

no DQ for me then, his cards good as you havent closed the comp, get some rules in place for what constitutes closing the comp in future

I will raise it with the committee and see what they recommend, there doesnt appear to be any guidance on our website about what constitutes competition closure.

What do other clubs do then? Stipulate a time limit after the competition finishes?

Competition closure as far as getting onto the computer and processing the scores, updating the CDH, etc, can vary quite a bit. Typically same day but could be 1,2,3, days.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Couple of things

Ignore the input to the computer because ultimately that's irrelevant

So you need to decide the actions of the player and the card

You have decided to take all the cards from the the box and start the process of closing the comp - you notice a card missing ? Well in that situation for me it's a DQ. It's the players responsibility to ensure that the completed Scorecard is handed into the relevant area as soon as the round is complete.

I see it regualry when closing a comp and a card is missing - they are DQ and it has affected the result. The players know the rules and have no issues.

The Comp should be closed once all players have completed their round.

 

[rulefan]

See updated post #16

 

[sawtooth]

In this case I'm not sure why you are struggling, he had ample time to return the scorecard within the defined time and failed to do so. I am also not sure why you refer to the entering of the score, as this is not relevant to your decision.

We dont really define a time I think thats the crux of the issue.

 

[doublebogey7]

isn't it silly that golf has this rule. the formality of handing in his card didn't change his score and how well he played.
i know the blazer brigade here will go nuts but i dont know why we can't all apply a bit of common sense and tell him to bring his card to the club asap so they can close the comp.

Have you ever volunteered for the job of collating scores at the end of a comp. It is not a five minute job and their are often a number of players who have failed to return their scorecard. Some through foregetfullness, some through embarrassment and a few through sheer bloodymindedness, most of us haven't the time to chase them all up. Oh and I've never ever warn a blazer.

 

[sawtooth]

isn't it silly that golf has this rule. the formality of handing in his card didn't change his score and how well he played.
i know the blazer brigade here will go nuts but i dont know why we can't all apply a bit of common sense and tell him to bring his card to the club asap so they can close the comp.

The card is up the club already. I'm at home.

The player that I dont have the card for returned his card 2 hours after he finished his round. However, it was only 20 mins from the time the last group finished their round.

Is that "soon as possible" I would argue that it is.

I wont DQ him but I think will need to tighten up the process to avoid any difficult situations in future.

 

[doublebogey7]

We dont really define a time I think thats the crux of the issue.

A precise time is not defined to allow some discretion but " as soon as possible" can never mean over 2 hours after the end of the round unless their are mitigating factors i.e dispute reconciliation.

 

[sawtooth]

Couple of things

Ignore the input to the computer because ultimately that's irrelevant

So you need to decide the actions of the player and the card

You have decided to take all the cards from the the box and start the process of closing the comp - you notice a card missing ? Well in that situation for me it's a DQ. It's the players responsibility to ensure that the completed Scorecard is handed into the relevant area as soon as the round is complete.

I see it regualry when closing a comp and a card is missing - they are DQ and it has affected the result. The players know the rules and have no issues.

The Comp should be closed once all players have completed their round.

Does this time vary though from week to week? I guess that you mean closing comp as processing the scores on the computer right?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The card is up the club already. I'm at home.

The player that I dont have the card for returned his card 2 hours after he finished his round. However, it was only 20 mins from the time the last group finished their round.

Is that "soon as possible" I would argue that it is.

I wont DQ him but I think will need to tighten up the process to avoid any difficult situations in future.

Sorry but two hours after the round isn't "as soon as possible "

You have removed the cards in preparation to close the comp - everyone has finished so all cards must be present. This person's card wasn't so for me it must be a DQ. The situation isn't difficult

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Does this time vary though from week to week? I guess that you mean closing comp as processing the scores on the computer right?

The cards for us are taken out of the box that evening - that for me is the competition closed for scoring entries. The scores are finalised , HC alterations sent to CDH and published the next day

 

[sawtooth]

The cards for us are taken out of the box that evening - that for me is the competition closed for scoring entries. The scores are finalised , HC alterations sent to CDH and published the next day

So in this case he may not have been DQ'd. He returned his card 20 minutes after the end of the comp.

If I had taken the cards in the evening I would have picked up all the cards including his. That is my dilemma.

 

[hovis]

The card is up the club already. I'm at home.

The player that I dont have the card for returned his card 2 hours after he finished his round. However, it was only 20 mins from the time the last group finished their round.

Is that "soon as possible" I would argue that it is.

I wont DQ him but I think will need to tighten up the process to avoid any difficult situations in future.

sounds good to me. I've previously taken my card home when i got a call from the handicap secretary saying "bring the card back you numpty". i appreciate it causing someone extra work though

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So in this case he may not have been DQ'd. He returned his card 20 minutes after the end of the comp.

If I had taken the cards in the evening I would have picked up all the cards including his. That is my dilemma.

But his card wasn't returned "as soon as possible" and it wasn't there when you picked up the cards ? You can go round in circles about it all - but ultimately did he follow the correct procedure for entering his card ? Seems to me he hasn't

 

[delc]

isn't it silly that golf has this rule. the formality of handing in his card didn't change his score and how well he played.
i know the blazer brigade here will go nuts but i dont know why we can't all apply a bit of common sense and tell him to bring his card to the club asap so they can close the comp.

You can be DQ'd for you or your scorer not signing your card, incorrect handicap, incorrect score if lower than the actual score, or no name on the card. Therefore the scorer needs to check your card as well as scores entered on a computer. If the card is not returned within a reasonably period of time, then it is an DQ in my opinion.

 

[drdel]

Making a mountain out of a molehil. The player was not told when the cards would be collected and it was a genuine mistake corrected promptly. DQ is not necessary and, under the circumstances OTT.

 

[hovis]

Making a mountain out of a molehil. The player was not told when the cards would be collected and it was a genuine mistake corrected promptly. DQ is not necessary and, under the circumstances OTT.

agreed. its a game of golf.
id have no problem coming second to a guy that took his card home for a week as long as his card was seen before he collected his prize

 

[sawtooth]

Making a mountain out of a molehil. The player was not told when the cards would be collected and it was a genuine mistake corrected promptly. DQ is not necessary and, under the circumstances OTT.

I come to that conclusion cheers but will probably define a time limit in future though to avoid ambiguity.

 

[delc]

I come to that conclusion cheers but will probably define a time limit in future though to avoid ambiguity.

I always make a point of returning my card as soon as I have completed my round, and checked and signed it. Some of our Seniors go off for a shower and/or to get changed before they hand in their cards, but that shouldn't take more than 30 minutes. Occasionally they go home and completely forget to hand in their cards, and in one case another player's card who should have won a comp! In my opinion one hour after the last group completes their round is plenty long enough.

 

[shagster]

at last club, apart from a couple of comps, the only rule was no teeing off in the comp after 3.00 and no standing on course, as last tee time for the early starters was 11.00.
the three o'clock was for members who had to work etc.

 

[rulie]

You can be DQ'd for you or your scorer not signing your card, incorrect handicap, incorrect score if lower than the actual score, or no name on the card. Therefore the scorer needs to check your card as well as scores entered on a computer. If the card is not returned within a reasonably period of time, then it is an DQ in my opinion.

There is no requirement in the Rules of golf for the competitor to enter scores in a computer and the committee is not permitted to to apply a golf penalty (strokes, DQ) for failing to do so. (Decision 6-6b/8)