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Does skycaddie tell what club to take ?

DelB

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Derek, my comment was related to alot of recent threads re GPS but in this one where it had been stated it takes the skill element out, why don't you get it to hit it for you...etc

"Unfair" may have been the wrong word from me to sum up the general feeling of these comments. If people are quite happy not to use them why is there the need to make those that do use them feel like they are doing something wrong?

Ah, I see.

Sorry, just new to the forum so am still getting to grips with the general 'mood' of things. ;)

Personally, I have no intention of buying one and using one, but that's my decision. Equally, if someone I'm playing with or against wants to use one, then that's their decision and I will respect that.

God, I'm getting sensible in my old age! :( :D
 

HomerJSimpson

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Trying to get back on the original thread, the SC does not give you details of what club to hit. What it does give is a measuring facility. I took my clubs to the practice ground and hit ten balls with each and recorded the longest, shortest and and average distance for each into and and down wind and recorded them in the back of my clubs strokesaver guide.

This means when in competition I still have access to the information and can make a subjective decision based on my lie, the conditions and flag placement
 

brendy

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Mark, Golf is a game of skill and planning your route round a course.
Perhaps Im a little old fashioned when it comes to assistance, but here is my view.
Ever since a club was lifted on st andrews turf, the game has been about getting your ball from A to B in as few shots as possible. When you miss a fairway you are supposed to be punished with rough, hazards, obstructions and ALSO, not knowing immediately, the distance to the flag. This is part of the game.
Having GPS all over the course is not how the game is intended to be played, if it was then all clubs and bodies would have embraced this technology at the drop of a hat. from what I gather gps is undecided or banned in the majority of clubs.
I just can't stress this enough, golf is a game of you against the course, not you and the powers of google earth vs the course. Turning up to compete in a competition where some players get less punishment from hitting stray shots, just doesn't interest me, if you cant hit fairways then take your medicine. It is a legalised (in some clubs) form of cheating, knowing yardages exactly from the middle of the trees or another fairway with no effort at all just isnt right.
Whatever you think, is entirely your own opinion and like me, probably wont be changed any time soon. Everyone is different, if you use one, great but remember anytime you win anything, dont forget to give it a mention in the speeches afterwards.
 

Herbie

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My view is clear, technology is great but some should not be allowed in competition, unless every single golfer in a comp has access to the same data

With that argument you could also say the latest driver adding 30 yards to your drive costing £400 is in the same league as someone who can not afford the £400 and has a £100 which is 30 yards less.

The players do have the access via shotsavers yardage markers and the likes its just that the player with the GPS knows the exact distance. Its like playing in the same comp as a 65 year old who has played the track for 40 years to a noob on the track, he will know by heart which club to take, does that mean he shouldnt as not all the players have that experience?

Would it be the same if you entered a comp on a course you havent played where a player had use of gps and you didnt?

Where the £400 driver is concerned, again this is subject to who uses it and how well they use it and hitting an extra 20yds doesnt necessarily give advantage in overall play but knowing exactly how far you are from the pin in certain circumstances gives advantage to a consistant and accurate hitter of the ball, this would be very advantageous to someone playing a course they were not familiar with, where charts did not cover the area concerned, it certainly would to me.

Shot savers and yardage narkers do not always give exacting data, nor do they give total coverage in the way gps and the like do.

I will say this again....have you ever watched the pros when they hit into a rare location and spend a lot of time debating with caddy,pacing about, often taking one club then swapping it for another, not something you would see much of at all using gps type of kit. :rolleyes:

It takes just one shot of unfair advantage for the entire round to be deemed unfair, how 'unfair' is decided is another matter.
 

HomerJSimpson

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DelB

Don't worry about it. Its a forum and so an exchange of views and opinions and everyone on here has exactly the same right to express their feelings. Not everyone will agree with you 100% of the time but that is the fun of the fair.

It does get heated on here and there are times when it can get a bit personal and bitchy. Roll with the punches and keep a smile on your face. If you do have a public fallout with anyone there is always the PM function to thrash out differences and reconcile misunderstandings. As a newbie we want to keep and encourage you and anyone else in the shadows to the biggest and best forum out there.
 

Parmo

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Yep this is a subject that will go on for many a moons, but can anyone answer this: -

What difference has making GPS units legal by the English golfing union made?

Is it so that clubs can decide themselves and if so are the against boycoting these matches or clubs that it is legal to use in comps?
 

vig

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Groundhog day indeed.

This must be a dozen posts now where the pro's and anti's have argued their corner.

The bottom line is if the R & A thought that the units were not fair, they wouldn't have endorsed their use.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with their use or not. If the club decides that they will allow their use.... End of argument
 

Herbie

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Yep this is a subject that will go on for many a moons, but can anyone answer this: -

What difference has making GPS units legal by the English golfing union made?

Is it so that clubs can decide themselves and if so are the against boycoting these matches or clubs that it is legal to use in comps?

I along with others have taken some agressive stick as well as subtle negatives regarding gps etc, yet the stick only seems to come from those in favour of their use in all golf including competition, denial of any advantage yet paying 150 to 300 quid for something with no advantage in comps? :D
This kit is an excellent training aid but I dont feel they should be allowed in comps simply because not everyone has one/wants one or can justify the expense of having one. The fact that I hold this opinion seems to bring out a lot of frustration and defensiveness by those that have them. The fact that it is such an emotive subject clearly means there is something in it and maybe the small pangs of guilt need gently soothing with the softness of support and defense.

I have not read anyone in favour of them saying that they are a significant advantage to a player, in knowledge/confidence and accuracy in a competition, on the contrary, more comments promoting the idea that they are of no advantage whatsoever :D :D

If this is a forum and I am to be allowed my opinion, why should my opinion warrent comments about the validation of my opinion rather than the subject matter?

I think gps etc are a brilliant aid, but I dont think they should be allowed in comps and I have clearly given reason for this, I would like to see reason for allowing them, other than, 'Ive got one its my choice' or 'Anyone can have one if they want' because lets face it where is the rest of the reasoning for their inclusion in the game?
 

Herbie

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Groundhog day indeed.

This must be a dozen posts now where the pro's and anti's have argued their corner.

The bottom line is if the R & A thought that the units were not fair, they wouldn't have endorsed their use.

It doesn't matter whether you agree with their use or not. If the club decides that they will allow their use.... End of argument

As with many rules in golf that have been amended or changed over many years, the fact that they have been accepted at the descression(and thats what it ammounts to) of clubs doesnt mean it will go away or be 'end of story'.
People who are pro gps etc have gone to great lengths to make issue of this subject, make it an issue for the powers that be and in turn encourage a decision, would the decision be the same if a greater number of anti people had raised complaints? Its how things work. ;) perhaps the anti lot dont wish to go to the same lengths to see it decided the other way??
 

Marko77

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Herb, in an effort to try and reduce the ding dong pro/con debate within this thread I responded direct to Brendy explaining my use of GPS but as you have just reiterated all the negatives that get me going I will respond here also.

It is not just because I have one that I think they should be allowed universally. The fact that the device just offers distance puzzles me as to why there is such a resistance to them. At the end of the day it is an electronically advanced strokesaver available to those who wish to spend the cash.

When I’m playing Opens at away courses where my handicap is at stake, I of course want every advantage available to me, including GPS. If a course has not approved the use then I respect that decision and leave it in the car. I don’t make issue of it. I find the GPS a real benefit, and whilst not lost without it, do miss not having it to help make my mind up.

My main reasoning promoting the use is all in information. Golf is meant to be a game where the rules and game (in most parts) is the same for Professionals and Amateurs alike. Where Pro’s will have a caddy to give them all the distance information they require amongst many other things, people who purchase GPS will have that information to hand. Those who have purchased a strokesaver will get a similar number after a few minutes pacing around the place. Rather than doing all the pacing about myself I have a digital Steve Williams with me who doesn’t open his gob and spout rubbish everywhere.

As long as these devices remain distance only, where is the issue? What does it matter if it's used in Competition?

If judging distance is all part of the skill why do the Pro’s rely on their caddy’s so much?

I'll finish with a quote from our bible (GM) who offer a perspective from the pace of play view

The evidence from our study was conclusive; GPS devices, when used by golfers familiar with them, have a positive effect on pace of play. Given that much of the info they provide is often available via course markings and yardage books, we have to ask why all clubs don't make them legal for competition play via the requisite Local Rule, and would urge the R&A to earmark them for the general rules in the next revision.
 

Smiffy

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As I stated in another thread regarding the fors and againsts for GPS systems.
I played with a friend at St Andrews who employed the skills of a local caddie. This guy knew the links like the back of his hand, he had been doing the job for years. He could tell my friend exactly how many yards he had to go on any given hole, from almost anywhere on the course. On top of this he was giving him information on the best lines to take off the tees, warning him of unseen dangers (bunkers etc)and suggesting which club to hit. My mate still only scored about 25 points and was beaten by all but one of the seven of us who played without a caddie. Did he have an "unfair advantage?" It would appear not. Did any of us complain because he was employing a caddie? Nope! We all had a good chuckle about it afterwards, including my mate. And I think the caddie was peeing himself at times too!
I could employ the best caddie in the world to take me around Augusta. It wouldn't make one iota of a difference. If he turned to me and said "Rob, you've got 170 yards to go, that's a 5 iron"...unless he was a scratch golfer and took the shot for me, there is absolutley no guarantee that I will hit the shot he was asking me to hit. But it would be nice to have him along for the ride.
 

haplesshacker

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Wow. What a read!!

I can see both sides of the argument here, and as before this one really seems to get the forum 'stirred up'.

Pros are taking upto 6 hours to play a round, and that's with a caddie telling them how far, which club etc. Our weekend games in summer were nearer 5 hours than 4, due to how busy the place was, societies (that's another argument!), and general slow play.

If GPS helps speed up play then why not?

I can't afford a GPS (I already have 3 for yacht racing, and one for the car), but I have got freecaddie on the phone, and despite my shots being erractic, I know roughly that I need club 'X' for 'Y' distance. It makes choosing which club to use so much quicker than referring to the strokesaver.

Is the advantage of GPS so different to the advantage that a player gets from the latest driver, putter, wedges, shoes, clothing, or even an electric trolley?

At the end of the day, it's how well we play as golfers; how well we drive, play into the green and putt that matters. And that will have a bigger effect on our score than a GPS.
 

rgs

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I dont have a GPS system--Have used GPS at Valderrama some 4 yrs ago. It was a basic system which gave you distances to the front of the green only.
Personally it was a great aid knowing how far you had to the green but you still have to execute the shot.

They are no more an advantage than the golfer who has the best custom fitted golf clubs playing against a player with a mix & match set--The player must be able to hit the shots.
 
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