Custom Fitting- The Evidence Base (VERY long post)

[Imurg]

All I know is that, according to my perception, I have only played better with custom fit equipment twice...and that most of my best golf has been achieved using off the rack or self-fitted clubs.
My last fitting (Ping) I wrote down what I thought I'd end up with before we started and was only 1 colour code out on lie angle.
Although you get hard data from the monitor it's data on today's swing. My swing quality can change within moments. 2 rounds ago my hybrid swing was practically perfect..last round about as bad as it can get.
And if you make a really shonky swing no custom fit club in the world is going to save you.
I'm not against custom fit but I don't think your average golfer will really benefit from more than shaft weight/flex/length and lie

 

[Voyager EMH]

Brilliant original post. Key element for me is,

The most telling findings are:

• 56% of those who bought custom fit equipment dropped 2 shots off their handicap vs 46% of those who bought 'off the rack'
• 25% of those who bought custom fit equipment dropped >5 shots off their handicap vs 16% of those who bought 'off the rack'
• 76% of those who bought custom fit equipment were having 'better average scores' vs 62% of those who bought 'off the rack'
• 21% of those who bought custom fit equipment reported no difference in scores vs 36% of those who bought 'off the rack

A further comparison that I would like to see is with 2 further groups.
1) Those with 5 year old clubs (not custom fitted) who expressed an earnest wish to reduce their handicap, but continue with the same clubs.
2) Those with 10 or more year old clubs (same other criteria as group 1)

Clearly, if you are spending the big bucks on new clubs it is with an intention and wish to improve.

I recommend custom fitting to anyone about to spend a fortune on brand new clubs. Makes no sense not to, in my view. I've never done it, however.

 

[Kennysarmy]

Brilliant original post. Key element for me is,

The most telling findings are:

• 56% of those who bought custom fit equipment dropped 2 shots off their handicap vs 46% of those who bought 'off the rack'
• 25% of those who bought custom fit equipment dropped >5 shots off their handicap vs 16% of those who bought 'off the rack'
• 76% of those who bought custom fit equipment were having 'better average scores' vs 62% of those who bought 'off the rack'
• 21% of those who bought custom fit equipment reported no difference in scores vs 36% of those who bought 'off the rack

A further comparison that I would like to see is with 2 further groups.
1) Those with 5 year old clubs (not custom fitted) who expressed an earnest wish to reduce their handicap, but continue with the same clubs.
2) Those with 10 or more year old clubs (same other criteria as group 1)

Clearly, if you are spending the big bucks on new clubs it is with an intention and wish to improve.

I recommend custom fitting to anyone about to spend a fortune on brand new clubs. Makes no sense not to, in my view. I've never done it, however.

Is it that much different to people changing a perfectly good car?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Is it that much different to people changing a perfectly good car?

I don't know. Perhaps we would need to compile some data and compare.

 

[Val]

Personal opinion based on nothing else but opinion is that you will only see the benefits of custom fitting if you have hit a golf plateau and are consistent. If for example you are a 10 hc and play regularly to around 10 give or take 3 shots then you are IMO at a plateau. If you get a custom fit and drop 3 shots in a year then you could argue thats success however if you get a custom fit and see no improvement then you could argue its a waste of time.

IMO its a waste of time for the improving golfer as you can quickly "outgrow" your custom fitted clubs that you have spent fortunes on.

Each to their own.

 

[Crow]

Great post virtuocity and raises a lot of good points.

I've been custom fit for irons once, I ended up with Mizuno JPX825 Pro. While the fitter did a good job I'd say my choice was as much down to the look of the club and the fact that I didn't want something too small headed as I was in the grips of a shanking nightmare at the time.
I was excited to get the clubs but at the same time I was initially tentative playing them as I wanted them to be a success and justify my outlay.

A big downer that I hadn't foreseen was that the hot faces impacted my chipping, so much so that I went back to the wedge from my previous set for a while (Mizuno MX-23) as this was more controllable. I'm sure that in hindsight this was the beginning of my chipping yips, something I still have issues with.



Overall I'd say that the experience/result was a negative for me.
I think that for the club golfer, unless you're exceedingly tall or short, club fitting has very limited potential to improve scoring.

I'm a firm believer that the average golfer is more than capable of making any adjustments necessary to their swing to suit the club that they're using, in fact it's something that they do without thinking about it.
Playing a different set every week I have as much experience as anyone when it comes to this.

Luckily I'm of average build but I play with all manner of clubs, I usually measure lofts so I have an idea of how far the club will go but also measure the 5 iron length out of curiosity.
5 iron lengths measured vary from 37 inches to 38.25 inches, I also play a few ladies clubs which are probably even shorter.
Head weights and swing weights are no doubt all over the shop.
Both of the above will impact slightly on the performance of the clubs, but will it be enough to have any more than a very small impact on scoring? I think not.

 

[Ethan]

Do we all agree that it is possible to have the wrong equipment, a beginner with butter knife blades, an older player with heavy Tour stiff iron shafts, clubs where the lie is too toe down or heel down, whatever?. If not, cool, you can just buy whatever catches your eye, don't even need to try them. If you do agree, then you must also agree that some way of choosing more suitable over less suitable equipment is possible, so that is on the spectrum of custom fitting.

Now that could involve anything between the pro taking a look at your swing, maybe using a basic launch monitor and swapping shafts of heads to get the best one, maybe looking at the sole and face to see what the contact points are like.

Or it could involve getting on a motion capture suit and many measurements with 3D lasers using exotic shafts made of rare earth metals.

Most people who get fitted get something in between. That fitting session should show that clubhead A with shaft X at a certain length and lie performed better than club heads B, C and D and shafts Y and Z. That is a form of scientific proof, experimental evidence, lab evidence if you like.

One of the arguments made against custom fitting is that average players are too inconsistent to benefit. Precisely the same argument is made to argue they should be fitted. The average player has certain swing characteristics that they tend to repeat. They might hit one off the toe and the next off the shank but the swing speed will not vary as much and it should be possible to find a fit that minimises the effects of their bad swings. The bad swings could be occurring because their clubs are too light or heavy to control properly.

Personally, I think that getting the right shaft flex and weight, grip size, clubhead lie and length are important, and I have improved my play by getting fitted. For example, I recently moved to a heavier driver shaft (70g) because I tended to be a bit quick at the top and handsy through the ball and the heavier shaft slowed it down a bit and reduced the spread, especially to the left. I also got fitted for a fade biased hybrid for similar reasons. There is a law of diminishing returns though, so I think there probably is a point when it doesn't add much expect to the final bill.

 

[Whereditgo]

Really interesting read.

It's unlikely to be as clear cut as benefitting from a handicap reduction, as in there are so many other factors that impact on form, time available to practice, attitude to practice, rounds frequency, mentality with card in hand etc.

For me, and I'm about to replace my current driver and fairway which were bought almost unused from someone on here several years ago who couldn't get on with the driver, if I'm going to be shelling out several hundred pounds on new kit I would prefer the opinion of an expert to guide me on shaft flex, shaft weight and loft.

If nothing else I will enjoy the experience, spending an hour or so with the fitter, seeing the differences a change of shaft or loft can make by hitting real balls outdoors. - Plus I am also a bit of a nerd scientifically curious.

I will report back after my visit to the National Fitting Centre

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Good post and topic. I have a yearning for custom fit, an itch , if you like?, but I keep telling myself that it is an indulgence.
Because I'm old and not consistent. But then I keep having good days and think I've sussed the swing.
So, I might try a driver, and hybrid fitting .
If your have time , I'd like a view about wood shafts .chaps
As mentioned by Ethan, it is generally reckoned that us oldies would benefit by shafts with more flex, due to the slow swing speed ( which causes slower clubhead speed?)
However, my problem is I start the downswing too fast, much too fast..
I'm getting it slower, but it is my innate fault.
I find that my 4 wood gets hit better, and I'm sure it has a stiff shaft.!
So, is the stiff shaft a benefit ? Because it slows the club coming down to impact?
So, should I have a fit for a stiff shafted driver?
Or am I thinking a load of cobblers??

 

[Ethan]

Good post and topic. I have a yearning for custom fit, an itch , if you like?, but I keep telling myself that it is an indulgence.
Because I'm old and not consistent. But then I keep having good days and think I've sussed the swing.
So, I might try a driver, and hybrid fitting .
If your have time , I'd like a view about wood shafts .chaps
As mentioned by Ethan, it is generally reckoned that us oldies would benefit by shafts with more flex, due to the slow swing speed ( which causes slower clubhead speed?)
However, my problem is I start the downswing too fast, much too fast..
I'm getting it slower, but it is my innate fault.
I find that my 4 wood gets hit better, and I'm sure it has a stiff shaft.!
So, is the stiff shaft a benefit ? Because it slows the club coming down to impact?
So, should I have a fit for a stiff shafted driver?
Or am I thinking a load of cobblers??

I would take flex and weight together. The combination of stiffish flex but light weight works well for some players who were decent ball strikers but can’t quite get the club back to the ball as well as they once could.

 

[Canfordhacker]

Most people who get fitted get something in between. That fitting session should show that clubhead A with shaft X at a certain length and lie performed better than club heads B, C and D and shafts Y and Z. That is a form of scientific proof, experimental evidence, lab evidence if you like.

Having been through this process recently, I agree with this. It was with the empirical evidence gathered in a 90 minute session (my reasoning being that the swing was my swing that day for different combos) that I was finding something that suited me better - dispersion more than distance being my aim. Sure, my swing will change - but on that day did i feel I was swinging like me? Yes, absolutely. So for me the data was solid and supported my decision. 6 rounds in, my only problems are adjusting to the differences in distance. 2 of those six are counting rounds for my handicap. If I had bought without a fitting I would have gone with brand loyalty and bought the latest Pings. Evidence I trusted showed me this may not have been the right answer. I may never know, but i'm happy with the choice I made.

 

[VVega]

This is NOT a study A proper study would be a randomised controlled trial with a control group (a placebo branch could have a “pretend fitting experience” or no fitting at all). The study would be “powered” and quoting outcomes with Confidence Intervals and follow ups in 3 and 5 years

In all seriousness, my hypothesis would be that an average golfer doesn’t stick with the same set of fitted clubs for long enough to measure anything meaningfully

 

[harpo_72]

I first got fitted for ping zing 2 irons I was 1/2” longer and black with a regular shaft .. I am average. I played a lot to low single figures, I used rental clubs of different specs .. very few did I ask to swap, I think I did it once with a Bridgestone driver with a regular shaft.
I could buy off the shelf no problem at all. I did have a custom fit for my irons on the last purchase. The mizuno swing DNA highlighted I could fit into virtually their whole range. I selected the shafts I wanted based on weight and feel .. they are graphite as I have started to get a jippy elbow.
I think fitting is valid if you are out side the normal body shape. I disagree with trying to rectify what is effectively a swing error .. you cannot buy a game, sorry.
I have for the last 8 years bought 2nd hand drivers, I was and I may still get a driver fitting but there will be no uplift shaft as I have the shaft I want to use now and this is just a cosmetic thing .. as my driver head is looking a little tired.
I would never begrudge anyone who wants a fitting.. just be realistic, score improvements come from hard work and practice.
Enjoy your buying experience and enjoy your golf ??

 

[chrisd]

Good writing young man, I always knew you were ejamacated.

I answered a few days ago when someone posted about whether to get fitted ot buy off the shelf that most of my best rounds came with off the shelf irons and I should have some experience having more than occasionally changed my clubs,

Although I haven't played golf as long as some (23 years) I seem to remember the club fitting in its early days with filming, and eventually, trackman to assist. Before that it was possible to obtain a complete trial set of clubs to walk round and try out, less scientific but probably a more accurate test as nowadays it's a 7 iron only which is fine for some but doesn't necessarily tell whether the pitching wedge or 4 iron will be any good for the buyer just because he hit the 7 iron ok. Most fittings I've done, and I've been to some manufacturers as well as my own club pro, are really just basic stuff - loft and lie, one of a couple of shafts, grip size etc and not like some of the fittings that i suspect you get from someone like Precision Golf (not been there myself) and in comparison I reckon taking out a complete trial set would be better to judge against a set you're currently using.

Back in my starter days my mate and I used to go to the driving range and knew a lot of the customers and people would borrow each others clubs to try. My mate was a 5 handicapper and he could hit well any club he tried and his criteria of a good club was simply "how did it feel" and not "how far did it go".

My current set is a set of TM's P790 off the shelf - any bad hits are my fault any good hits are my fault , the clubs are good and I got them for £500 (4 to p/w) brand new, a custom set would have been double that ÷.

Cheers again Dave for the OP

 

[Curls]

Enjoyable read OP, well considered, and some good discussion.

My personal experience is that in 2013 before I joined a club and had a handicap, I was fit for ping G15s at Gainsborough. My 20+ year old clubs were junk. Enjoyable experience absolutely yes, but I could have bought those off the rack I reckon, my swing was poor and strike was worse I just didn’t know it yet.

Went through a couple of sets from eBay as I progressed to 17hc and then 12, then in the last two years custom fit for Mizuno irons and a Titleist driver. I feel these were important improvements and over that period with these new clubs got off my ~3 year plateau of 9 and down to 5.

Some of that was improvement in technique etc but imo having the right clubs helped, not just mentally. I picked up the bones of 20 yards carry with the new driver. Even now I can feel my driver head position is difficult to control through impact, I’m losing it because I’m swinging faster having become stronger in lockdown with weights. What’s the answer slow down?! Try a few off the shelf or just hit a load and see what I get on with? No, I will get custom fit to find the best shaft to help me find the clubhead again and bring my spin down.

If I’m buying a new club it’ll be custom fitted by a reputable dealer. If you strike it reasonably well/consistently and or you have made some improvement in technique/had a change for better or worse in strength/flexibility- I don’t think you can go wrong with proper custom fitting. You can definitely go wrong off the shelf.

 

[azazel]

I was custom fitted two years ago - as much as hitting some clubs on an uncovered range on a wet January afternoon counts - for my driver and 3 wood. Anecdotally, since I don't keep stats, my driving is better than it's ever been and my 3 wood is a reliable club off the tee and off the deck. Hard to really say how effective this fitting was due to the circumstances but I have no complaints.

I was also fitted for a new set of irons in October 2020 as my family decided to treat me to a new set for a big birthday. My handicap sat steadily around 5 with my old irons, though I was prone to a two way miss with a massive hook never far away even when I was swinging "well" and a weak fade in play when I wasn't swinging great. The new irons have a much stiffer shaft, which has taken the hook out of play completely and allows me to go after my iron shots without worrying about the left miss. From that perspective the fitting appears to have been a success, although serious putting and short game woes have screwed my scores up. On top of that, the fitting at Gleneagles was a really good fun and interesting experience.

To conclude, if you need or want new clubs then I see no harm in a fitting but I wouldn't necessarily recommend getting fitted just for the sake of it.

 

[BridgfordBlue]

A mate has new irons, plays off around 14, he's admitted he's playing rubbish at the moment and has stated "I'm still getting used to the new clubs" - they were custom fit - my initial thought was surely they should take no getting used to - like a pair of gloves shouldn't they just feel perfect?

Depends how different the new clubs are really and whether they’re driving a need to also change other things like posture.

 

[Ethan]

A mate has new irons, plays off around 14, he's admitted he's playing rubbish at the moment and has stated "I'm still getting used to the new clubs" - they were custom fit - my initial thought was surely they should take no getting used to - like a pair of gloves shouldn't they just feel perfect?

Every change feels weird, a change of grip, stance etc. If the new club fit was very different to the old one, of course it will feel different. Tour pros who switch kit often need an adjustment period too.

 

[Curls]

Every change feels weird, a change of grip, stance etc. If the new club fit was very different to the old one, of course it will feel different. Tour pros who switch kit often need an adjustment period too.

Indeed. True he dropped Foley at the same time but Rose struggled to adjust to Honma imo. He’s now using Mizuno irons, a srixon driving iron, TM woods and Vokeys. He did all right around Augusta with a mixed bag!

 

[Bigfoot]

Great read!

The only real benefit I can quantify from my custom fitting was that my clubs are now longer and therefore I feel more comfortable holding my irons.

My stance used to be so squatted down and uncomfortable, it wouldnt have been repeatable again and again for the next 20 years.

I am 6ft 3" though so taller than the average Joe!

To me this is the most basic point of custom fitting benefit. I'm 6'5" so longer and more upright clubs made a big difference to me too.

The biggest problem though, is that most fittings are for one range of clubs. Surely, we need to test all options but there are few places that have every companies clubs as it would be a massive outlay. It would also make the fitting so long we would be broken physically.

A fitting success though, is always going to be subject to the golfers ability to swing as they normally do. I went to one at a range once that was so cold, any lack of feel could have been down to the temperature or my inability to find the centre of the club.