Course Record.... Or not.....

HawkeyeMS

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Because stableford is stroke play and that is a rule of stroke play! THERE ARE NO GIMMES REGARDLESS OF RANGE, YOU MUST HOLE OUT IF YOU WANT THE SCORE TO COUNT.


As for the OP.

If it was purely down to mentality caused by format is that not like saying you can't have the course record because you played on a flat calm day and the previous record was set on a windy rainy day, or the pins were in easier locations for this round.

If he shot the score in a qualifying competition conditions from the same tees then it should stand.
Agreed, if you knock it round in 65 shots, you knock it round in 65 shots.

It's like saying the guy in last place going into Sunday of a PGA Tour event can't claim a course record because his mindset was different than if he was in contention.
 

Simbo

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We had a young left handed player set a new course record at Glenbervie in the Wednesday Medal, 62 playing off 2, 9 under par, 7 birdies & 1 eagle, impressive stuff.
Who was that?. Irvine?

Although this brings us back to the stableford v strokeplay argument, 65 blows is 65 blows. Provided he holed out, although I do believe stableford is an easier format.
 

srixon 1

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This has happened to a guy at our club today playing in a Stableford. 8 under to “beat” the previous amateur record by 1 shot. The debate now is whether the committee will let it stand.
 

4LEX

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I don't believe these scores should stand. Standing on the tee in a Stableford versus a Medal is a different mindset. You can be agressive and know you won't lose anything but 2 points. So much more pressure in a medal with a good score going IMO.
 

IanM

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I'd never thought about this as being an issue, and I'm not sure where I stand on it.

Yep, Stableford is a different mindset from medal, but the number of times you hit the ball, is um, you know!!

Interesting debate
 

JamesR

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I don't believe these scores should stand. Standing on the tee in a Stableford versus a Medal is a different mindset. You can be agressive and know you won't lose anything but 2 points. So much more pressure in a medal with a good score going IMO.
Low handicappers play every round as a medal. You don’t get enough shots to think about it any differently.
 

4LEX

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Low handicappers play every round as a medal. You don’t get enough shots to think about it any differently.
I dunno about that, everyone gets shots in each format. I'm off 0.7 and play a medal differently. The key difference is on a short par 4 in a Stableford I'd go for the green, in a medal I'd leave myself a wedge in. Also potentially on second shots into medium length par 5's.

The average winning score in a medal is usually higher than a Stableford, which points to a difference in mindset. Interesting debate though.
 

Kaz

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Low handicappers play every round as a medal. You don’t get enough shots to think about it any differently.
Mostly, yes, but there are circumstances where that changes. For example, I played a medal at the weekend. My second shot on a par 5 was going for the green with a three wood over a load of crap. Terrible swing, hit it deep in the crap so needed to reload. I pulled seven iron and laid up to avoid a repeat and risk running up a seriously big number. If it'd been stableford I'd have whacked 3 wood again and taken my chances.
 

rosecott

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I'd never thought about this as being an issue, and I'm not sure where I stand on it.

Yep, Stableford is a different mindset from medal, but the number of times you hit the ball, is um, you know!!

Interesting debate
We had this debate in committee last year when a new best gross score was made in a stableford competition. I sought advice from the R&A and got the following reply:

Thank you for your email regarding a query on the Rules of Golf.

In answer to your question, the term “course record” is not defined in the Rules of Golf. However it is generally accepted that a record score should be recognised as the official “course record” only if made in an individual stroke play competition (excluding bogey, par or Stableford competitions) with the holes and tee-markers in their proper medal or championship positions (measured course).

In addition, it is recommended that a course record should not be recognised as the official “course record” if a Local Rule permitting preferred lies is/was in operation however this is at the discretion of the Committee.

I hope this information is of some assistance.


Kind regards,



Conor Finlay
Rules Manager


The committee had a lengthy discussion and decided that the gross score achieved in a stableford competition would stand as a course record.
 

ExRabbit

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I beat my best gross score in the last 10 years or more by 4 shots playing a stableford competition this summer.

There is no way I feel that I might have achieved that if it had been medal play.

Loads of tough tee shots on the back 9 which I played with more confidence because I had 24 points going out.

So after reflection since I saw this thread, I agree with the above R&A recommendation that stableford scores should not count for a course record.
 

HeftyHacker

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I beat my best gross score in the last 10 years or more by 4 shots playing a stableford competition this summer.

There is no way I feel that I might have achieved that if it had been medal play.

Loads of tough tee shots on the back 9 which I played with more confidence because I had 24 points going out.

So after reflection since I saw this thread, I agree with the above R&A recommendation that stableford scores should not count for a course record.
Why would you not have felt the same way in medal play though re. Having a few extra shots to play with on the back nine?

For me as a mid handicapper I can absolutely understand that there is a difference in mindset between the two formats but, as others have said, for a low handicapper I don't see how there can be. Certainly not when you're good enough and playing well enough to be in course record territory.

Maybe thats just my own mindset in play, I'm just as likely to go for the riskier shot in both formats 😂.
 
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I dunno about that, everyone gets shots in each format. I'm off 0.7 and play a medal differently. The key difference is on a short par 4 in a Stableford I'd go for the green, in a medal I'd leave myself a wedge in. Also potentially on second shots into medium length par 5's.

The average winning score in a medal is usually higher than a Stableford, which points to a difference in mindset. Interesting debate though.
Have you got any evidence for this, and if so by how much.
 

jim8flog

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IMO Mind set is important.

If I have one stroke left on a hole to score 1 point in a stableford comp say a 30 ft putt or a greenside chip I am going to approach that shot with a totally different mind set to that of the same shot in a medal comp.
 

Swango1980

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Why would you not have felt the same way in medal play though re. Having a few extra shots to play with on the back nine?

For me as a mid handicapper I can absolutely understand that there is a difference in mindset between the two formats but, as others have said, for a low handicapper I don't see how there can be. Certainly not when you're good enough and playing well enough to be in course record territory.

Maybe thats just my own mindset in play, I'm just as likely to go for the riskier shot in both formats 😂.
The lowest guy at our place is off +4.

On one hole, for example, it is a 330 yard par 4, slight dogleg right. Water all the way down the right for the entire hole, deep rough to left and over the back. In Stableford, he goes for the green. It is do or die. Gives himself an eagle chance or easy birdie, or simply blobs the hole. He has this mindset the whole way round, knowing he can rack up birdies over the 18 holes, which offsets the odd blob. So, on a day where he manages to keep the tee shot in play, he can get 7 or 8 birdies fairly easily, thus getting a mega low score.

In medal, he just wouldn't do this. Any errant tee shot could potentially lead to a very big score on a hole, so he can plot his way round the course using irons (that he'd hit further than most can hit driver).

So, it does seem that Stableford gives low handicappers the potential to shoot a very very low score, although perhaps that is in combination of them being a big hitter as well, so they can use a very different approach to how they play a hole.
 

JamesR

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The lowest guy at our place is off +4.

On one hole, for example, it is a 330 yard par 4, slight dogleg right. Water all the way down the right for the entire hole, deep rough to left and over the back. In Stableford, he goes for the green. It is do or die. Gives himself an eagle chance or easy birdie, or simply blobs the hole. He has this mindset the whole way round, knowing he can rack up birdies over the 18 holes, which offsets the odd blob. So, on a day where he manages to keep the tee shot in play, he can get 7 or 8 birdies fairly easily, thus getting a mega low score.

In medal, he just wouldn't do this. Any errant tee shot could potentially lead to a very big score on a hole, so he can plot his way round the course using irons (that he'd hit further than most can hit driver).

So, it does seem that Stableford gives low handicappers the potential to shoot a very very low score, although perhaps that is in combination of them being a big hitter as well, so they can use a very different approach to how they play a hole.
Someone should tell our +4 and +5 lads that, because they go for it in every round they play.
Hence one lad shooting 68 the other week in a medal, with a quadruple in the round, whilst he came second gross to a 66.
 
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