Course Rating

[wjemather]

WHS assumes that play is year round and therefore winter scores will be balanced by summer scores, otherwise we would be faced with two CRs & Slopes.
I think that PCC was supposed to cope with this but despite the formula being changed it doesn't yet seem to have the effect desired by UK players.
As the PCC formula hasn't been published I can't compare it with the formula for CSS.

That is mostly because they believe the benchmark for assessing whether PCC should kick in is playing to handicap (because that was the basis of how CSS worked) when it is actually a range of scores centered around 3 strokes higher than that.

 

[rosecott]

On the subject of PCC....for me it last kicked in 37 rounds ago........

You must only play when nothing unusual happens. So far this year at ours - 199 no change, 4 @ -1, 13 @ +1, 2 @ +2,1 @ +3. In line with what I would expect.

You haven't been the same since you haven't had CSS to complain about.

 

[Backache]

Having spent a long day as part of the course rating team yesterday (doing 5 sets of tees as we did at another course last week) I am loath to criticise the process as I know the hard work that volunteers put in.
However I do agree with the slightly too large an emphasis on distance over difficulty, how you tweak the algorithm I do not know but all the detailed information on difficulty in terms of a series of measurements is available.
Given the focus on length it does mean that the difference in difficulty between summer and winter is too much as one of the major factors is distance due to cold weather and lack of roll - PCC doesn’t seem to properly account for the discrepancy.

Interestingly Lou Stagner had a study earlier in the year where he looked at the Arcoss data base and concluded if you wasn't to raise your handicap play short courses and if you want to lower it plat long courses, because long courses were significantly over rated in difficulty compared with short courses
He concluded the rating system was systemically flawed.

 

[rulefan]

Interestingly Lou Stagner had a study earlier in the year where he looked at the Arcoss data base and concluded if you wasn't to raise your handicap play short courses and if you want to lower it plat long courses, because long courses were significantly over rated in difficulty compared with short courses
He concluded the rating system was systemically flawed.

Who he?

 

[Backache]

Who he?

Across statistical insight lead amongst other things.
He understands stats.

 

[Swango1980]

Across statistical insight lead amongst other things.
He understands stats.

I suppose none of the people who have been involved in formulating the rating system over many years understand stats?

 

[Backache]

I suppose none of the people who have been involved in formulating the rating system over many years understand stats?

Im not suggesting they don't. Having read a lot of Knuths commentary. I have a lot of respect for him and indeed the rating system.
My comment was not intended to denigrate them but to point out that Stagner is a credible commentator whether correct or incorrect in this instance.

 

[SteveJay]

Genuine question from someone who knows very little about the rating process.

Can someone explain what actually happens, and how long does a rating takes? This thread refers to numerous factors that affect difficulty, which could only be considered by extensive walking, or playing, of the course. Does a rating take the time to do that or is it largely a desk top exercise using data, algorithms etc?

 

[Imurg]

You must only play when nothing unusual happens. So far this year at ours - 199 no change, 4 @ -1, 13 @ +1, 2 @ +2,1 @ +3. In line with what I would expect.

You haven't been the same since you haven't had CSS to complain about.

80 cards this year - 2 instances of PCC going to +1
Broadly in line with it being a complete waste of time.....

 

[chellie]

On the subject of PCC....for me it last kicked in 37 rounds ago........

From April this year I've got some 3's, 2's, a 1 and 0's

 

[Slab]

Who or What performs the daily PCC ?

edit: I know the calculation itself is automatic, but who or what tells the software that xyz condition, weather or set up requires PCC to 'run'

 

[Swango1980]

Who or What performs the daily PCC ?

It isn't a person that sits down every day and decides what it should be

It is based on a calculation that uses the submitted scores on that day, and done automatically.

 

[Slab]

It isn't a person that sits down every day and decides what it should be

It is based on a calculation that uses the submitted scores on that day, and done automatically.

thanks , see my edit. Something/someone surely needs to tell the system to run PCC ?

 

[Swango1980]

thanks , see my edit. Something/someone surely needs to tell the system to run PCC ?

Nope. It is an automated process. It can't be turned on and off at somebody's will

 

[Slab]

Nope. It is an automated process. It can't be turned on and off at somebody's will

thanks, so its immaterial whether the condition is a 40kph wind or 18 hollow tined greens or selected white tee's moved back (for recovery) when yellow tees remain unchanged
How does it know what its calculating for ?

 

[Imurg]

thanks, so its immaterial whether the condition is a 40kph wind or 18 hollow tined greens or selected white tee's moved back (for recovery) when yellow tees remain unchanged ?

If the course is set as a qualifying course for the day then a PCC will run...regardless of weather conditions...it's a score calculation, nothing to do with playing conditions..

 

[Slab]

If the course is set as a qualifying course for the day then a PCC will run...regardless of weather conditions...it's a score calculation, nothing to do with playing conditions..

It sounds like a stick finger in air solution. Must be a helluva formula if it doesn't matter between 18 tined greens and a windy day

 

[Voyager EMH]

ESA - Expected Scores Adjustment.

Nowt whatsoever to do with playing conditions. Daft of them to call it PCC. But hey, who are we?

 

[Slab]

Anyway, despite playing on days with tined greens, days with 40kph wind & days with tees moved back. PCC has never 'come in' for me this year
Looking back I see it 2-3 times in 2023 and same for 2022, but nowt so far this year

 

[rulefan]

thanks, so its immaterial whether the condition is a 40kph wind or 18 hollow tined greens or selected white tee's moved back (for recovery) when yellow tees remain unchanged
How does it know what its calculating for ?

It doesn't measure any conditions. It depends entirely on how the field has scored on the day. If the scores are better or worse than a set target the PCC will kick in.