Course lengthening

[scratch]

If I had a better short game id say it needs more length (6400 yards) but these lob web approaches on par 4s are keeping my scores down. I don't particularly enjoy long courses, hitting 4 iron in to a par 4 is no fun for anyone.

Why not? Hitting long irons into greens is no bad thing it's part of the challenge of the game, agree not on every hole but I don't want to be hitting wedges into every par 4 either.

 

[lyden]

Why not? Hitting long irons into greens is no bad thing it's part of the challenge of the game, agree not on every hole but I don't want to be hitting wedges into every par 4 either.

I have no problem with it on par 5s but for a par 4 it would have to be about 460 yards for me to play driver 4 iron, and being honest I'd struggle to make par very often. If I was struggling though some of the members at my place would need a miracle.

 

[Fader]

I honestly don't think our course needs lengthening at all. With the tight doglegs, position of traps & trees, the monster size, undulations & multi tiered greens we have there is already plenty there to make it a challenge. All of that doesn't include the wind we get coming up through the valley.

If they wanted to make ours harder which they can do easily its speed up the greens which they do in the summer. Our course has a massive premium on course management it's not just a case of hitting fairways & greens, you really have to hit the fairways in the right places to make the approach shot easier plus you need to hit the right level on the greens or you have no chance, even hitti f just centre of the green can be lethal if the pins on a lower tier.

 

[MadAdey]

The pros are seeing the benefit of these modern clubs because they hit it straight. 40 years ago if a tour pro did not catch it out of the screws with a persimmon driver they could loose 30 - 50 yards on their shot even though it went straight. Modern day drivers even if they smashed off the toe end, they would still barely loose any distance at all. All that has happened with us club golfers is that we are now hitting our bad shots further into the trouble.

In response to the actual OP, I do not see the point in lengthening your average members course. Maybe tighten up the fairway out at big hitter range, but lengthening it will make it almost impossible for some to play. Could you imagine standing on the tee of yet another 450+ par 4 knowing a 240 yard drive is really not going to give you a chance of hitting the green in 2. That is the 10th time this round you have had to do it, as someone thought it would be a good idea to lengthen the course. At my place they have started to put fairway bunkers in to protect holes. The first fairway they have altered is a 380 yard par 4, it has seen a bunker being put in at 240 and another at 280 to try and catch any drives going down the right hand side. Which is now making bigger hitters to try and hit a 3 wood and land it in the area between them.

 

[scratch]

I have no problem with it on par 5s but for a par 4 it would have to be about 460 yards for me to play driver 4 iron, and being honest I'd struggle to make par very often. If I was struggling though some of the members at my place would need a miracle.

Unless it played straight downwind, a 460 yard par 4 would be quite a low SI and according to your sig you play off 9 so you would have a shot. As a handicap golfer you can't expect to hit every green in regulation.

 

[Region3]

Unless it played straight downwind, a 460 yard par 4 would be quite a low SI and according to your sig you play off 9 so you would have a shot. As a handicap golfer you can't expect to hit every green in regulation.

The target is 9, hc is 17.

I enjoy the challenge of having long approaches. I also like cheesecake but I wouldn't want it every day.
The course needs a mix of holes to keep it interesting.

Unless a course is particularly short, I don't think you can go around lengthening them just because the best players are hitting the ball further. Golf courses are run for the benefit of the members, and I'd guess that 80% of them don't hit the ball further now than they did 10 years ago.

 

[MadAdey]

I still do not see the need to lengthen your average private members club. 40 years ago people used old school hard to hit blades and wooden woods, what is the difference in the average handicap between then and now? I know blokes at my place who have floated around the 12 - 16 mark for the last 20+ years, so hitting it further is not helping them to shoot lower scores. Surely making courses longer will just make handicaps go up as people really struggle to play them. At my place a lot of people struggle from the back tees as it goes over 6500 yards. Imagine what would happen if it was put out to 7000 yards.

 

[duncan mackie]

. At my place they have started to put fairway bunkers in to protect holes.

this is the key response to my mind - the appropriate placement of varied hazards to the tees being used and the players capabilities (with current equipement etc). Bunkers don't need to be big, or deep, to influence behavious - and they have the advantage of not adding hours to a round like thick rough, or adding to the cost of a round like endless water hazards! Yes they can be expensive to maintain but many courses have loads that are never seen by most people already!

a good example of moving the tees is Augusta, where there are natural elements in play such as the slopes on 10 and 11, or the dogleg on the 13th, & 18th and they have moved the tees back to retain those relationships with the tee shots, but they have also moved fairway hazards and water contours.

 

[Stuey01]

I think for the pros, yes the equipment and the ball in particular helps, but the approach to strength and conditioning has really revolutionised the pro game in recent years.

You always had exceptions, big strong fellas who never trained a day in their lives and hit it miles like John daly and Angel Cabrera, but these days there are far more really long players and that IMO is down to the adoption of strength training as part and parcel of being a golfer.

Club Golfers aren't really hitting it longer, but how many are training to?
Look at Crossfield's mate gorilla James, he hits it miles because he takes his strength training seriously.

 

[freddielong]

Anyone who doesn't think the game is a lot lot easier than it was in say the 80's need to get hold of some old blades persimmon woods and a few dunlop 65s and play their course I promise it will absolutely change your mind


And do not think that strength equals lengh it is technique look at Freddie couples

 

[Stuey01]

And do not think that strength equals lengh it is technique look at Freddie couples

Strength is nothing without technique, it's both obviously.

 

[duncan mackie]

Anyone who doesn't think the game is a lot lot easier than it was in say the 80's need to get hold of some old blades persimmon woods and a few dunlop 65s and play their course I promise it will absolutely change your mind

I have/do from time to time - Pig Eye (laminated not even Persimmon!) driver and Wilson Fluid feel blades. The 1.62" ball flies miles, and straight, so it's not really the right challenge in the context of this thread, but it's a pig to putt and chip Better to just use a standard 1.68" ball from the period such as the Golden Bear, or even a good one such as the Titliest 384 PTS wound for your comparison to hold up. In fact using that ball with my current gear looses me about 20% distance with longer clubs (I have boxes of brand new ones).

 

[StrangelyBrown]

We've no real space to lengthen the course, and even if there was there would be a mutiny if it was even suggested.

 

[MadAdey]

Anyone who doesn't think the game is a lot lot easier than it was in say the 80's need to get hold of some old blades persimmon woods and a few dunlop 65s and play their course I promise it will absolutely change your mind


And do not think that strength equals lengh it is technique look at Freddie couples

I would not argue that the modern day clubs has made it a bit easier, but what I would say is the average handicap is probably not much different than it was then. At the end of the day the technology may have been improved to make the game easier and that is a fact. problem is that people are still as bad as they ever where, so it really does not matter that people have this modern equipment. If you swing out to in with an open clubface it is still going to have about 50 yards of slice on it irrespective of what kit you are using, just with the new kit it is going to end up 30 yards deeper in the crap.

By the way I have used 80's golf clubs. When I first started to play my dad had the Slazenger TPM USA blades and matching woods. I agree that classic blades might be difficult to hit, but my dads were not much different to be honest to what I hit now. The woods I would agree are not even close to being alike.

 

[patricks148]

I was told a story about when my club were hosting the 1999 walker cup. Long before a couple of guys from the R&A came up to see what changes needed doing to the course, ie making it longer more bunker etc.

They had identified the 8th hole which is 350 yards predom down wind with only two bunkers. I believe these guys where both either pro's or very go AM. The got taken to the 8th tee and each hit a handfull of diff shots with diff clubs then playes ther 2nd shots from many diff places.

Turned round and told the club, no thats fine the way it is.

so length is'nt everthing.

Mind you messers, Donald, Casey and Co still tore it apart