Course lengthening

[AuburnWarrior]

We're continually being told that the clubs we buy today are allowing us to hit the ball further.
We're continually hearing that the courses that the top boys play are being lengthened so that the course remains competitive.

Does your home course need lengthening?

Alas, my clubs (irons excepted) are possibly older than some of the forummers on here but the players that I have played with at my gaff who are using the latest woods/irons don't appear to hitting the ball out of sight! The course is still holding it's own.

Are we being hoodwinked by the manufacturers?

 

[Imurg]

Are we being hoodwinked by the manufacturers?

Wash your mouth out and give yourself 20 lashes with a damp copy of the Radio Times for even suggesting such an immoral thing.....



'course we are!

The Pros are not gaining huge yardage really just some and all it means is they're hitting wedges or short irons into greens rather than 4's or 5's
We hit it virtually the same as we've always hit it and probably always will....
One day someone will twig that distance isn't everything

 

[One Planer]

Good thread :thup:

The course I play is a shade over 5100 yards with no par 5 holes. There was talk about one being added and found out at the weekend that the drainage work has begun in preperation for the new green.

I've often said my course isn't very long, but it is extremely tight. Hopefully the new par 5 will also be a tight and testy hole.

As per equipment. TM are constantly saying their latest club is X longer. Take the RBZ and Stage II versions. They claimed an additional 17 yards with the RBZ then an extra 10 yards on the Stage II. There is no way tech' has advanced that much in a little over 12 months. It's just a case of a longer and lighter shaft.

Callaway are jumping on the band wagon, heck even Titleist did when they launched the 913 models. They would be fools not too.

They couldn't really pitch a sale as "15 yards shorter than last years but tighter dispersion".

I have no idea why manufacturers are obsessed with distance, just seems to be the case with, pretty much, all of them now.

 

[duncan mackie]

the gap between the elite players use of the modern equipement and average Joe is simply huge in terms of length - huge.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

the gap between the elite players use of the modern equipement and average Joe is simply huge in terms of length - huge.

I played with our scratch golfer recently who had been to Titleist's HQ and got fitted for their brand new driver. He'd even had a special shaft fitted which cost him £300. We were the same length off the tee. Surely, he should have been miles past me, shouldn't he?

I'm not a big hitter and my driver is ten years old.

I would put him in the 'elite' category seeing as he regularly plays in pro tournaments and takes part in qualification for The Open.

So, we're being conned, aren't we?

Has anyone had their home course lengthened as a direct result of the members hitting the ball further?

 

[duncan mackie]

As per equipment. TM are constantly saying their latest club is X longer. Take the RBZ and Stage II versions. They claimed an additional 17 yards with the RBZ then an extra 10 yards on the Stage II. There is no way tech' has advanced that much in a little over 12 months. It's just a case of a longer and lighter shaft.

totally disagree in relation to the last 12 months you reference - shaft weights and club lengths haven't changed in that period.

what has changed (is changing) is the spin element; so you have a situation where carry distances haven't shifted significantly but roll out has gone up a huge amount in normal conditions - which is where the numbers come from.

 

[scratch]

Yes, we are being conned.

Manufacturers claim that their clubs are longer than ever and yes, they are. But when you look into it a bit further you will see that lofts are getting stronger and shafts are getting longer so that your 4 iron now goes as far as your old 3 iron used to. When you go to buy your next set of clubs I bet it is 4-PW, no different from 3-9i in old money.

So yes, you are being hoodwinked.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

Yes, we are being conned.

Manufacturers claim that their clubs are longer than ever and yes, they are. But when you look into it a bit further you will see that lofts are getting stronger and shafts are getting longer so that your 4 iron now goes as far as your old 3 iron used to. When you go to buy your next set of clubs I bet it is 4-PW, no different from 3-9i in old money.

So yes, you are being hoodwinked.

So, when the European Tour and the US Tour state that courses are being lengthened - are they part of the con?

I don't understand why they have to have their courses lengthened and yet the courses that we all play day in, day out are remaining the same. The pros use the same gear that we use - surely the 'elite' guys at your clubs should be destroying the holes that a few years ago were proving difficult.

 

[richart]

Does your home course need lengthening?

If my course was made longer, I would catch my club on a tree on nearly every hole. We have no where to go back, but that is good as far as I am concerned.

The course was designed to play its curent length. If you made holes longer you would be hitting long shots into greens that were designed for short irons. Our short holes have smaller greens, the longer par fours have bigger greens. I have seen so many holes ruined by the tee being pushed back, and the hole losing all its character. The only change I would probably make would be to move the tee forward on the par three 15th, to allow the average player to hit an iron into one of hardest greens on the course.

 

[MetalMickie]

The pro's have gained the most from the changes in the ball, As previously said we mere mortals do not generate the clubhead speed to obtain those same advantages.

I appreciate that I am getting older but I have all the latest kit and am playing the same course that I was 32 years ago when I had small headed, steel shafted, persimmon headed woods and yet my driving distances remain similar and I still need similar lofted irons to reach my target.

So, in answer to the original question, no our courses do not require lengthening and yes we are being hoodwinked by the marketing mens' claims.

 

[duncan mackie]

I played with our scratch golfer recently who had been to Titleist's HQ and got fitted for their brand new driver. He'd even had a special shaft fitted which cost him £300. We were the same length off the tee. Surely, he should have been miles past me, shouldn't he?

I'm not a big hitter and my driver is ten years old.

I would put him in the 'elite' category seeing as he regularly plays in pro tournaments and takes part in qualification for The Open.

So, we're being conned, aren't we?

Has anyone had their home course lengthened as a direct result of the members hitting the ball further?

not knowing who it is I can't comment specifically, but I do know a number of scratch golfers who do so on a short game, even some + golfers in that category (and of course some pro golfers).

but look at it this way - there are 14 year olds, and young ladies, knocking it 260 on the tour but there are a huge number of 20 year olds capable of 320+ on the US collegeate.

the other factor is that the elite's don't actually 'bother' to hit it a long way unless they need to. Our +2 would hit all but one of our 5's in 2 everytime (the 644 with a dog leg doesn't quite work for them off the back tee) but even on 460yd par 4's they will be hitting hybrid or 3 woods - the Jamega guys used driver on 3 holes (7000yds) and observing the TP and Europro they approach things that way too.

you can see the reality on the TV week in and week out

 

[Jdb2005]

The parkland course I play at could do with our 13th being changed from a par 4 to a par 5. There's a good 150 yards behind the current tee that they could alter IMO

 

[scratch]

So, when the European Tour and the US Tour state that courses are being lengthened - are they part of the con?

I don't understand why they have to have their courses lengthened and yet the courses that we all play day in, day out are remaining the same. The pros use the same gear that we use - surely the 'elite' guys at your clubs should be destroying the holes that a few years ago were proving difficult.

The difference between pros and club golfers is that pros play golf for a living so they have the time to spend in the gym doing golf specific exercisesto improve flexibility and core strength etc. And the differences they hit the ball are not as drastically different to low club golfers as you think. US tour guys are playing in perfect conditions every week, warm air where the ball travels a lot further.

 

[JustOne]

So, when the European Tour and the US Tour state that courses are being lengthened - are they part of the con?

I don't understand why they have to have their courses lengthened and yet the courses that we all play day in, day out are remaining the same. The pros use the same gear that we use - surely the 'elite' guys at your clubs should be destroying the holes that a few years ago were proving difficult.

Lots of courses I know have had one, several or more tees moved back gradually over the years. I don't know about 'destroying' but a lot more par 5's are in range nowadays.... I don't know if that makes them play any easier though

 

[One Planer]

totally disagree in relation to the last 12 months you reference - shaft weights and club lengths haven't changed in that period.

what has changed (is changing) is the spin element; so you have a situation where carry distances haven't shifted significantly but roll out has gone up a huge amount in normal conditions - which is where the numbers come from.

While that may be true Duncan, The Taylormade RBZ stage II shaft weight on the stock Rocketfuel shaft, in regular flex, is 50g.

The Matrix shafts in the previous models were 57g and the Aldila RIP's were 58g.

Not drastic I agree but lighter, yes.

The Taylormade Superfast 2.0 had a 45.1/2" shaft, I think the stock R11 was also the same. The RBZ2 has 46" shaft.

Again, not massive, and again with the latter not over 12 months, maybe 2 years, but there shafts have gotten longer and lighter.

 

[USER1999]

Over the 13 years I have been at my course, it has probably been lengthened by 250 yards. It may well get another 50 or so in the next few years, as the back nine now plays easier than the front. Do the members want this? Probably not, but I'm guessing it will happen anyway.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

My course is just about right for the membership. Not many pros come and take it apart so it can't be too bad. I was listening to Gary Player on Golfing World last night and he is adamant that the ball needs to be changed in the pro game sooner than later. I think there will be an argument for bifurication and having one set of gear (and rules) for the pros and another for the amateur game

 

[USER1999]

I hope not. Bifurcation would be the worse thing to happen to golf. Ever. It just would.

 

[Yer Maw]

there has to be some truth in it because pro tees are going further and further back, though as said they can generate the speeds and modern pros are certainly a lot stronger physically than say 20 years ago so perhaps that has more to do with it. But the word is it is the ball and not clubs!!??!! Either way its taking a lot out of some course defences but then they need to make bunkers traps and not hazards.

 

[lyden]

If I had a better short game id say it needs more length (6400 yards) but these lob web approaches on par 4s are keeping my scores down. I don't particularly enjoy long courses, hitting 4 iron in to a par 4 is no fun for anyone.