Couple of questions for those who use CONGU at their club

[chrisd]

Interesting discussion this.

I paid entry into our monthly medal this week, and had a competition card on the go. Walking off the 2nd green, I knew my competition was over, played 3rd and 4th dreadfully and that was that. On the 5th tee, I told the lad marking my card to no longer record my scores, and I stopped playing under competition rules - I picked my ball up on the 6th green when it was 2 inches from the hole rather than putt out, I didn't complete the 7th etc.

At the end of the round, I signed the card I was marking for a playing partner, got my card back and tore it up - therefore not submitting a return. CSS for the day was 75 - I don't think I would have made much (if indeed any) difference to that.

I was expecting to get 0.1 back for not submitting my card, but I wasn't even listed on the final standings, thankfully. No 0.1 back at all.

You should have had .1 added and some clubs,I believe, take further action where cards are not returned at all

 

[williamalex1]

re cutting of h/c between rounds of 2, 3 or,4 round comps.
A few years ago i played the 1st of a 4 round comp at my home club 8am start and scored net 70 with a 6 at a par 3 the css turned out to be 70

So feeling good, i decided drive to a club just a few miles away that was having an h/c open comp and i scored net 71 the css was 73 for away players. My h/c was ajusted before the 2nd round of the 4 by -.9 . happy chappie

 

[duncan mackie]

I had a big set to with my club captain a couple of years ago when I retired injured in a comp and .1 was added. I spoke to the EGU and they said that non completion of a round due to injury meant that the card should be left aside. It took ages for him to agree to take off the .1 but he was a pompous so and so and just tried to be difficult. I was level for my handicap at the time but the EGU didn't ask that before giving their answer

Dec 2(c) (e) covers this, but not with the sort of clarity you might hope for!

It advises that where players discontinue play in a Q event for a reason considered reasonable by the committee they should treat it 'sympathetically'.

Those I have discussed this with re injury have all agreed that from their perspective this would mean that where there is a reasonable chance of the player making buffer they wouldn't add 0.1 - some suggest that projecting buffer is a fairer approach. On the basis of the decision either approach would seem to fit

It should also be noted that 2 (c) (c) also advises that committees would be entitled to withhold a 0.1 increase for players quiting after 'a few holes' for any reason.

 

[Tommo21]

Interesting discussion this.

I paid entry into our monthly medal this week, and had a competition card on the go. Walking off the 2nd green, I knew my competition was over, played 3rd and 4th dreadfully and that was that. On the 5th tee, I told the lad marking my card to no longer record my scores, and I stopped playing under competition rules - I picked my ball up on the 6th green when it was 2 inches from the hole rather than putt out, I didn't complete the 7th etc.

At the end of the round, I signed the card I was marking for a playing partner, got my card back and tore it up - therefore not submitting a return. CSS for the day was 75 - I don't think I would have made much (if indeed any) difference to that.

I was expecting to get 0.1 back for not submitting my card, but I wasn't even listed on the final standings, thankfully. No 0.1 back at all.

I would have put my card in...no matter what was on it.

 

[williamalex1]

You should have had .1 added and some clubs,I believe, take further action where cards are not returned at all

Can they add .1 when they don't have the card to see what you scored ?.
At our club you would be barred from the next comp for not returning your score card .

 

[TXL]

Can they add .1 when they don't have the card to see what you scored ?.
At our club you would be barred from the next comp for not returning your score card .

When we close a comp at my club, we reconcile the cards with the entry list and entry money. Anyone who does not return their card, even if they have entered their score in the system, will be disqualified and will not get their entry fee refunded. As for handicap increases, that is left to the software we use (Club 2000) to decide, we do not have any say in the matter.

 

[chrisd]

Can they add .1 when they don't have the card to see what you scored ?.
At our club you would be barred from the next comp for not returning your score card .

I would say that if they dont see the card then they would take the view that the non return is likely to be because the player played poorly and was likely to get a .1 increase anyway. Most players return a good card.

 

[backwoodsman]

At ours, no card = 0.1 without fail. Which I think is as it should be.

But the thread seems to highlight the need to differentiate between not turning up and not returning a card. At ours, you book your tee time in advance, but pay and sign in on the day. If you sign in, then you're entered and you'll be getting 0.1 unless you return a card indicating you played well enough not to. If you don't turn up & sign in, then you get a b*****king - unless you've a decent reason. Presumably those places where you can register & pay in advance must have some system of signing in on the day to show whether you played or not - and therefore whether you are "absent with cause", "absent without" or "NR"

(Above not including whether you started but were forced to retire for a valid reason)

 

[williamalex1]

even though you have a nr , can't you still be cut on stableford if they had the card

 

[Whee]

even though you have a nr , can't you still be cut on stableford if they had the card

If you've played well enough for that to happen.

As it was, I realised I shouldn't have even bothered going out to play. I'd had .1's from the previous two medals.

Our club will cut handicaps based on non-medal rounds, as long as it's signed by a member and is played under medal conditions, which we always do now. I still won't submit a non-competition card that would result in a .1 though - not a chance.

 

[Colin L]

I
Our club will cut handicaps based on non-medal rounds, as long as it's signed by a member and is played under medal conditions, which we always do now. I still won't submit a non-competition card that would result in a .1 though - not a chance.

That's interesting. The CONGU rules quite clearly state that a non-return of a card taken out for a Supplementary Score will result in a 0.1 increase. But I see you are in Riyadh so presumably the arm of CONGU does not reach that far?

 

[Foxholer]

even though you have a nr , can't you still be cut on stableford if they had the card

Yes you can.

The Stableford Adjustment will reduce a blow-out hole to 0 point for handicap purposes. Congu Handicap is effectively a Stableford system. NR won't feature comp results though.

Our club will cut handicaps based on non-medal rounds, as long as it's signed by a member and is played under medal conditions, which we always do now. I still won't submit a non-competition card that would result in a .1 though - not a chance.

This sounds a bit open to manipulation to me.

 

[Whee]

That's interesting. The CONGU rules quite clearly state that a non-return of a card taken out for a Supplementary Score will result in a 0.1 increase. But I see you are in Riyadh so presumably the arm of CONGU does not reach that far?

Our club follows CONGU regulations as far as i'm aware, and as best they can.

You don't have to declare that the card for the round is supplementary, as long as it is played under medal conditions, and signed as such by a member, they'll accept it.

I'm not sure if that's correct or whatever, this is the first club i've been a member at, or indeed played more than a handful of times.

 

[Whee]

This sounds a bit open to manipulation to me.

As long as the player and counter signing member sign to state it was played under medal conditions, ie; everything was holed out, appropriate penalties applied etc, then the club staff are happy to accept it.

It's no more open to manipulation than two mates going out as a two ball in a medal and signing for scores at the end.

There has to be a two way trust with golf clubs.

 

[chrisd]

As long as the player and counter signing member sign to state it was played under medal conditions, ie; everything was holed out, appropriate penalties applied etc, then the club staff are happy to accept it.

It's no more open to manipulation than two mates going out as a two ball in a medal and signing for scores at the end.

There has to be a two way trust with golf clubs.

It is open to manipulation in as much as a card that would lead to a .1 increase would not have to be submitted and therefore its a downward only handicap system (potentially). If the card has to be pre-registered then the adjustment would be correct for all possibilities

 

[Colin L]

Our club follows CONGU regulations as far as i'm aware, and as best they can.

You don't have to declare that the card for the round is supplementary, as long as it is played under medal conditions, and signed as such by a member, they'll accept it.

Hmm. They are not following this bit of the regulations, then:

A Player intending to return a Supplementary Score is required to signify his intention prior to the commencement of play, in the manner determined by your Golf Club.

 

[Foxholer]

Hmm. They are not following this bit of the regulations, then:

A Player intending to return a Supplementary Score is required to signify his intention prior to the commencement of play, in the manner determined by your Golf Club.

That may actually be ok then.

It is open to manipulation in as much as a card that would lead to a .1 increase would not have to be submitted and therefore its a downward only handicap system (potentially). If the card has to be pre-registered then the adjustment would be correct for all possibilities

That was my point. Though the implication from Whee was that not all cards need to be put in either, so maybe not every reduction either.

And most Medals are arranged in groups of 3 to minimise likelihood of collusion too.

 

[rosecott]

So - if the Saudi Brotherhood aspire to administer handicaps in accordance with CONGU rules, two simple reminders:

1. Organised qualifying competition - sign in for the comp in advance, play, submit the card (good or bad).
2. Supplementary round - sign in in advance, play, submit the card (good or bad).

Anything other than that will lead to distortion of handicaps - the player who doesn't submit the bad cards in the hope that his handicap will not go up, and the player who doesn't submit the good cards so that his handicap won't come down.

 

[Colin L]

That may actually be ok then.

I wouldn't agree. The "manner determined by your Golf Club" means that the method by which a player signifies his intention to put in a Supplementary Score may vary depending on the club's system. It doesn't however mean that the club can ignore the requirement that the player gives advance notification in some way or another.

 

[duncan mackie]

Our club follows CONGU regulations as far as i'm aware, and as best they can.

from a number of observations about their practices in this thread they are doing a terrible job, and will be in serious risk of loosing their CONGU status!