Counting Back.

[backwoodsman]

Just thought I'd canvas a bit of opinion. If you have more than one starting position for competitions, should there be different back nines used if count-back is needed? We have 3 starting points - 1st 8th and 13th - but it's always the back nine as on the card that's used. Doesn't see right to me - wouldn't it be better/fairer to use the back nine as played?

 

[Slab]

When we do shotgun starts its still always been the scorecard back 9 that's used for count back

I think its the best (or least unfair) way to do it given the alternatives for some groups in possibly having an easier personal back 9 than others

 

[HawkeyeMS]

You have to choose 9 holes and it would seem logical it is the same 9 holes, it would be silly to compare players scores over different holes as they would a) be different holes difficulty wise and b) different pars, it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

 

[backwoodsman]

When we do shotgun starts its still always been the scorecard back 9 that's used for count back

I think its the best (or least unfair) way to do it given the alternatives for some groups in possibly having an easier personal back 9 than others

Point taken, but isn't it to do with how well your game holds up in the later stages of your round?

Ps: gotta go - I think the damn course is open for the monthly comp. Miracle.

 

[BTatHome]

It's meant to be a comparison of holes in order to determine the winner, nothing more.

In an extreme case our course has 2 par 3's in the space of 3 holes ... I would be very unimpressed if the countback was taken back to include that set of 3 as someone would obviously have a serious advantage compared to the guys that started elsewhere on the course and a set of tough par 4's to finish.

 

[backwoodsman]

Ok, seems that the standard way is the fairer.

And it seems miracles don't happen. Web-site was late in being updated. Course only fit for playing Pooh-sticks apparently

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Ok, seems that the standard way is the fairer.

And it seems miracles don't happen. Web-site was late in being updated. Course only fit for playing Pooh-sticks apparently

Gutted

 

[Ethan]

Many people think that count back is a way to determine the 'better' score. It isn't. It is just a form of coin-toss but framed in a way that involves the score card and where the methodology is explicit. Remember if count back fails to separate, the next step is an actual coin-toss.

 

[BTatHome]

Many people think that count back is a way to determine the 'better' score. It isn't. It is just a form of coin-toss but framed in a way that involves the score card and where the methodology is explicit. Remember if count back fails to separate, the next step is an actual coin-toss.

I always thought the type of countback (whether it starts on back nine, back six etc, or goes straight to hole by hole) and any subsequent decision on the winner was a competition rule, and so could be completely different for each club.

Whilst the back nine is by far the most common interpretation there is no set ruling for what to do in a countback, or after the countback cannot separate the players.

 

[Ethan]

I always thought the type of countback (whether it starts on back nine, back six etc, or goes straight to hole by hole) and any subsequent decision on the winner was a competition rule, and so could be completely different for each club.

Whilst the back nine is by far the most common interpretation there is no set ruling for what to do in a countback, or after the countback cannot separate the players.

OK, whatever you say. I've never seen it done differently, but YMMV.

The fact remains that is is essentially a random system intended to be a clear way of breaking a tie rather than a merit-based system.

 

[Foxholer]

OK, whatever you say. I've never seen it done differently, but YMMV.

The fact remains that is is essentially a random system intended to be a clear way of breaking a tie rather than a merit-based system.

I've seen it done differently, but that was yet another example of 'Committee-itis'!

I agree that there's no specific logic to it, though back 9 seems a more logical choice than front, but it needs to be fair (and pre-determined) which is why using the same 9 is important.

And yes, how you resolve a Tie is set by The Committee. Which is why Playoffs differ in number of and which holes are played also.

 

[palindromicbob]

Would it be possible that basing countback on S.I would give a spread to compensate for different stage of a round?

 

[Foxholer]

Would it be possible that basing countback on S.I would give a spread to compensate for different stage of a round?

Using different 9s has issues to start with!

Nett countbacks would really only work if the 9s were actually balanced and even the Odd/Even means there's a potential issue.

Gross scores wouldn't work unless the Gross scores are balanced either - think Dubai's 35:37.

And same sort of issues with SIs - which ones do you use? Equally 'fair' perhaps, but also equally 'unfair' too! And more complicated/unknowns involved.

So a single common method that is simple and no less fair than any other seems best, which is what the current method is. Tt's not a case of fair/unfair, just equitable - and known. As Ethan points out, a coin toss would be just as fair/unfair.

 

[Ethan]

Just to add, count back is fair, because in medal play one shot counts just as much as another, whether a drive or a putt, or a shot on the first or last hole, so separating players based on the perceived merit of their scores doesn't work.

So you are only left with 2 choices - play some more golf or toss a coin (or use a similar random method).

 

[palindromicbob]

I'm sure Homer will have plenty to say on the issue soon

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm sure Homer will have plenty to say on the issue soon

Bloody countback. Bloody jammy Irishmen.

 

[bladeplayer]

playing exact handicaps could solve alot of the situations IMO, in the event of a tie subtract actual rather than playing handicap ..

 

[rosecott]

playing exact handicaps could solve alot of the situations IMO, in the event of a tie subtract actual rather than playing handicap ..

You would then have one countback system for medals and a different one for stableford/bogey.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

playing exact handicaps could solve alot of the situations IMO, in the event of a tie subtract actual rather than playing handicap ..

You would then have one countback system for medals and a different one for stableford/bogey.

Agreed, I think we just have to accept that in the absence of the practicality of a playoff, countback is as good a means as any. After all, the handicap system already ensures the best player doesn't always win.

 

[bladeplayer]

You would then have one countback system for medals and a different one for stableford/bogey.

Very true mate to be honest i never thought of the stableford thing.. DOH moment