Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Mudball]

You’re one of the 2 non-Labourites, I think. But certainly one of the “great offended brigade” who took part in the onslaught.

i hope @Hacker Khan is not offended again..

 

[Mudball]

Was speaking to a colleague in the States yesterday.. Interesting conversation... He is good gun carrying, NRA card holding, MAGA and comes from a family of Republicans.. He is travelled the world. It was interesting to hear his views of Trump. Acc to him 'when the body bag count is increasing, even the most ardent Republicans are rethinking about supporting Trump'.... but he still has to think twice about voting Biden. Simply because his family votes Repbulican.
I dont know how much of such a party line approach is taken in the UK. Couple of years ago, i think I read an article which talked about traditional family & party lines. It was more around traditional labour voting blue collared famiies and immigrant families had started to vote Tories as they gain more education and improve their financial status. I wonder if the Covid will make some Tories go the other way. Though quiet frankly, you are better off voting for Bucket Head in this country.. That way, you are assured you will still get a clown in #10

 

[drdel]

Johnson is a liar and a coward. He is happy to change his story when it suits him, and to blame others for his own many failings. The care home crisis is due in large part to discharges back from hospitals to care homes made hastily by a panicked Govt after they realised their euthanasia experiment in herd immunity was going to come with a much higher cost in bodies than they first realised. At the time, neither the NHS not care homes had adequate testing or PPE. The ring of protection for the care sector claimed by Hancock is risible. Precisely the opposite happened.

Small fact - The PM did not discharge anyone back to Care Homes that was done by medical staff at NHS Trusts - the same Trusts who were advised several years ago to hold stocks of PPE but didn't bother and instead upped the pay and levels of management.

 

[GB72]

Was speaking to a colleague in the States yesterday.. Interesting conversation... He is good gun carrying, NRA card holding, MAGA and comes from a family of Republicans.. He is travelled the world. It was interesting to hear his views of Trump. Acc to him 'when the body bag count is increasing, even the most ardent Republicans are rethinking about supporting Trump'.... but he still has to think twice about voting Biden. Simply because his family votes Repbulican.
I dont know how much of such a party line approach is taken in the UK. Couple of years ago, i think I read an article which talked about traditional family & party lines. It was more around traditional labour voting blue collared famiies and immigrant families had started to vote Tories as they gain more education and improve their financial status. I wonder if the Covid will make some Tories go the other way. Though quiet frankly, you are better off voting for Bucket Head in this country.. That way, you are assured you will still get a clown in #10

I don't have a party line but tend to vote for whichever party is putting forward the more center policies as I have no attraction to hard left or hard right. The last election left me basically no choice as both parties went to the extreme ends of the spectrum. 10 years ago I could have voted either way as there was not much between to centerist sets of policies. Problem we have is that when one party goes to the extreme, the other does likewise in trying to be opposite when, in fact, a center approach may stand more chance of taking voters from the other side.

 

[rulefan]

As I understand it, the 'homes' that fared best were the ones that didn't follow government 'procedures'...

The government didn't issue 'procedures'. The decision to move people was made by NHS officials.

 

[Mudball]

Small fact - The PM did not discharge anyone back to Care Homes that was done by medical staff at NHS Trusts - the same Trusts who were advised several years ago to hold stocks of PPE but didn't bother and instead upped the pay and levels of management.

I think we are all falling into the same ... everyone blaming the other guy. The reality is there is blame in every part of this chain. The Govt failed (BoJo as the head cannot absolve himself), the care system is not working (no money to fix), the NHS was a shining example on the frontline but the supply chain was broken (no PPE), no clear guidance from regulators (Medical, dental, Cricket etc).
Ironically the Ones that ignored the govt did well. Equally the most hated set of the Brit professionals - the Banks - seemed to have worked well thru this. Similarly the Govt’s furlough scheme worked too ... so there are many bright spots and equally dark spots out there.

 

[SocketRocket]

This issue is not "as old as the hills"... I can well remember the exemplary care my grandparents received, back in the day, in council owned/managed care homes...

Yes it is, funding of Social care has always been a problem. There are still council funded care homes but only for people not able to fund through their own wealth.

 

[MegaSteve]

The government didn't issue 'procedures'. The decision to move people was made by NHS officials.

Who are merely messengers for government...

 

[SocketRocket]

Someone has not called me a labour supporter again have they? How may times, I haven't voted Labour in ages, do I look like some commie loving Corbynista?

I have said many times that I abhor Labour's economic ideology. How they allegedly want to massively expand the role of the state and pump billons into the economy with scant regard for how we will pay it all back. The Tories just do not do that kind of thing. They know an economy mostly built on consumer spending, zero hours contracts and cheap credit is sound, and I think Labour could learn a lot from the Tories recent approach to economic matters.

If it sounds like a labour supporter and writes like a labour supporter it may well be a Labour Supporter.

However it seems like the Grand and Neborious Order of Yogurt Huggers are United in their ongoing quest to personally blame the Slopey Shouldered One, he of the Empty Jacket and Grand Wizard of all that offendeth, for anything and everything. Just a normal Tuesday really. ?

 

[SocketRocket]

Who are merely messengers for government...

No they're not, they were the suppliers and operators of the health services last time I looked.

 

[Hacker Khan]

i hope @Hacker Khan is not offended again..

I'm always offended.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't think (m)any are blaming Johnson and his crew 100% for the excessive care home deaths. The Care Home issue has been a systematic problem for a long time that no government has properly addressed - and indeed that the public has not wished to think too much about in what we might have to pay through taxation - indeed has pushed back when the prospect of paying more for care of the elderly has been proposed. But it is a truth that the Conservatives have been in power for ten years and the situation has not improved over these ten years - rather it has been exacerbated by the austerity programme.

And yet - Johnson chooses to point the finger at 'some' care homes and by implication blame those who run and work in these care homes - without accepting as a mistake anything that the government directed homes to do (sometimes through their proxies) - especially in the early weeks of the pandemic. And the government did make decisions in respect of care homes that have clearly been mistaken, and that have contributed to (I will not say caused) the high number of deaths amongst the elderly. But rather than apologise for these mistakes - they point the finger at those who were struggling to cope. Despicable.

And of course Johnson is incapable of speaking for himself in response to the very wide criticism he is receiving. Well he wouldn't would he - so he sends out Sharma and Hancock....what a coward.

And of course those who deem it necessary to support Johnson and the government in all matters continue to do so, as they accuse others of being 'political'. What a joke - if it were in the slightest bit funny - which it isn't.

 

[rulefan]

Who are merely messengers for government...

You are confused. The four NHS organisations are not government bodies. The Department of Health is but does not manage the NHS(s). Also Public Health England is.

 

[MegaSteve]

Yes it is, funding of Social care has always been a problem. There are still council funded care homes but only for people not able to fund through their own wealth.

 

[drdel]

I don't think (m)any are blaming Johnson and his crew 100% for the excessive care home deaths. The Care Home issue has been a systematic problem for a long time that no government has properly addressed - and indeed that the public has not wished to think too much about in what we might have to pay through taxation - indeed has pushed back when the prospect of paying more for care of the elderly has been proposed. But it is a truth that the Conservatives have been in power for ten years and the situation has not improved over these ten years - rather it has been exacerbated by the austerity programme.

And yet - Johnson chooses to point the finger at 'some' care homes and by implication blame those who run and work in these care homes - without accepting as a mistake anything that the government directed homes to do (sometimes through their proxies) - especially in the early weeks of the pandemic. And the government did make decisions in respect of care homes that have clearly been mistaken, and that have contributed to (I will not say caused) the high number of deaths amongst the elderly. But rather than apologise for these mistakes - they point the finger at those who were struggling to cope. Despicable.

And of course Johnson is incapable of speaking for himself in response to the very wide criticism he is receiving. Well he wouldn't would he - so he sends out Sharma and Hancock....what a coward.

And of course those who deem it necessary to support Johnson and the government in all matters continue to do so, as they accuse others of being 'political'. What a joke - if it were in the slightest bit funny - which it isn't.

I look forward to the day when we can debate a point without the need to use derogatory comments or childish names for those whose opinions might be different.;

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I look forward to the day when we can debate a point without the need to use derogatory comments or childish names for those whose opinions might be different.;

Amen to that............…......what do those on the right have against yoghurt?

 

[AmandaJR]

And again...Isn't it Boris that is being criticised for his handling of it? Excuse my confusion, but can you explain (as I can't understand) how a broadcasting organisation can 'handle' the epidemic? That surely IS something for the Government, in this case, to do. A broadcasting organisation can surely only provide 'coverage' of how it's being handled.

I'll try! Boris criticised care homes. The BBC are outraged that he do such a thing. They criticised care homes...many times in the past. So to be outraged that he does the same as they have...

That's all I've got.

 

[MegaSteve]

You are confused. The four NHS organisations are not government bodies. The Department of Health is but does not manage the NHS(s). Also Public Health England is.

The absolute first responsibility of any government is the safety of the people... When there are failings in delivery, of any service, government cannot/should not hide behind the agencies it appoints/manages... Taking responsibility is part and parcel of government... Or, is that only for times we have a Labour government...

When the last exercise, for pandemic preparations, was conducted there were a number of shortcomings identified... Government should have been all over that, like a rash, ensuring those issues were addressed and repaired... I am suggesting that's an important area of government... As, early on, Hancock tried to deflect the lack of preparations by blaming the last Labour government... Only for a report to surface that the last such exercise, under a Labour government, showed preparations were at a level that all governments should be seeking to achieve... So, one must ask why that level was not maintained under recent Conservative governments...

 

[SocketRocket]

The absolute first responsibility of any government is the safety of the people... When there are failings in delivery, of any service, government cannot/should not hide behind the agencies it appoints/manages... Taking responsibility is part and parcel of government... Or, is that only for times we have a Labour government...

When the last exercise, for pandemic preparations, was conducted there were a number of shortcomings identified... Government should have been all over that, like a rash, ensuring those issues were addressed and repaired... I am suggesting that's an important area of government... As, early on, Hancock tried to deflect the lack of preparations by blaming the last Labour government... Only for a report to surface that the last such exercise, under a Labour government, showed preparations were at a level that all governments should be seeking to achieve... So, one must ask why that level was not maintained under recent Conservative governments...

They had to pay off the eye watering debt inhereted from Labour.

 

[pendodave]

They had to pay of the eye watering debt inhereted from Labour.

Asinine...