Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[rudebhoy]

I agree that surplus capacity is a good thing, and if all the reported contacts were getting traced and tested, that would be great. however there have been reports that the majority of reported contacts have not been contacted while we have an army of tracers sitting round twiddling their thumbs.

Also, the fact that her Tory MP husband is a member of a right wing think tank (1828) which wants to abolish the NHS and replace it with an American style insurance based system would seem to make her a less than ideal candidate for a leading NHS role.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Also, the fact that her Tory MP husband is a member of a right wing think tank (1828) which wants to abolish the NHS and replace it with an American style insurance based system would seem to make her a less than ideal candidate for a leading NHS role.

I believe that the 1828 group are in favour of reform of healthcare in the UK.

However, they are not suggesting that universal access to quality healthcare be removed and those without the resources would not be denied .

Their suggestions are for insurance based provision along the lines of the German and Dutch systems rather than the US model.

I do not see the NHS as sacrosanct but I most certainly do regard universal access to first class healthcare as a basic requirement of society.

If the NHS proves to be the best for this then fine but if there is a more effective alternative then surely that is a good thing.

A closed mind is unhealthy.

BTW why do you constantly feel the need to label individuals and groups as "right wing" as if all views alternative to your own are extremist?

 

[rudebhoy]

I believe that the 1828 group are in favour of reform of healthcare in the UK.

However, they are not suggesting that universal access to quality healthcare be removed and those without the resources would not be denied .

Their suggestions are for insurance based provision along the lines of the German and Dutch systems rather than the US model.

I do not see the NHS as sacrosanct but I most certainly do regard universal access to first class healthcare as a basic requirement of society.

If the NHS proves to be the best for this then fine but if there is a more effective alternative then surely that is a good thing.

A closed mind is unhealthy.

BTW why do you constantly feel the need to label individuals and groups as "right wing" as if all views alternative to your own are extremist?

I don't see the term "right wing" as being extremist, I'm sure there are plenty Tories who are happy to be called right wing. I also don't see "left wing" as being extremist either, if you called me left wing, I wouldn't be upset. If you said "extreme left", or if I said "extreme right", that would be different.

As for 1828, I haven't read the detail of what they have proposed, only that they want to abolish the NHS and replace it with an insurance-based system. How does that work for those who can't afford insurance? If they get the same level of healthcare for free, how does it differ from the current system where those who can afford to do so, pay NI?

 

[drdel]

Ah, the dedicated Tory Boys are teaming up! Things MUST be dire!

It must have taken great intellectual effort to invent that comment.

You have no idea of my political leanings.

Am I now allowed to respond to the immature phrase that you clearly wish to use in a derogatory manner and as an insult?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I don't see the term "right wing" as being extremist, I'm sure there are plenty Tories who are happy to be called right wing. I also don't see "left wing" as being extremist either, if you called me left wing, I wouldn't be upset. If you said "extreme left", or if I said "extreme right", that would be different.

As for 1828, I haven't read the detail of what they have proposed, only that they want to abolish the NHS and replace it with an insurance-based system. How does that work for those who can't afford insurance? If they get the same level of healthcare for free, how does it differ from the current system where those who can afford to do so, pay NI?

It works in countries like Germany and the Netherlands.

As far as I can see the service users (including those who can't afford the costs) are treated no differently to us in the UK.

It is how the service is provided that differs with less centralisation.

I have benefited greatly from the NHS throughout my life which mirrors the existence of the Service.

However, it doesn't mean that we should not consider alternatives if they can improve upon the present system.

If they can't then, fine move on but we should never regard the NHS as beyond either reform or replacement.

 

[rudebhoy]

It works in countries like Germany and the Netherlands.

As far as I can see the service users (including those who can't afford the costs) are treated no differently to us in the UK.

It is how the service is provided that differs with less centralisation.

I have benefited greatly from the NHS throughout my life which mirrors the existence of the Service.

However, it doesn't mean that we should not consider alternatives if they can improve upon the present system.

If they can't then, fine move on but we should never regard the NHS as beyond either reform or replacement.

I'm not claiming the NHS is 100% perfect, it certainly isn't, but it by and large it provides a very good service. The constantly increasing life expectancy is a massive challenge, I'm sure I've read that more than half NHS users are OAPs.

PFI deals are also screwing a lot of trusts. The charges are obscene. Blair and Brown should be ashamed of themselves for bringing PFI in.

 

[Foxholer]

It must have taken great intellectual effort to invent that comment.

You have no idea of my political leanings.

Am I now allowed to respond to the immature phrase that you clearly wish to use in a derogatory manner and as an insult?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I'm not claiming the NHS is 100% perfect, it certainly isn't, but it by and large it provides a very good service. The constantly increasing life expectancy is a massive challenge, I'm sure I've read that more than half NHS users are OAPs.

PFI deals are also screwing a lot of trusts. The charges are obscene. Blair and Brown should be ashamed of themselves for bringing PFI in.

None of which I could disagree with.

PFI could have worked but it was badly thought out and the terms were far too loaded in favour of the private sector providers.

What ever system is used for providing universal health care will be faced with the problems you outline. An ageing population and constantly developing treatments are just two of them.

But to me that is a good reason for keeping the means of provision under review.

However, I repeat universal access is, for me, a non-negotiable.

 

[Mudball]

Great idea, let's go for a solution that doesn't work for the phone with 49.24% market share in the UK. That will teach the sheep for buying overpriced phones!

I dont think that is a new approach with the Tories.... Isnt Brexit also in a similar category...
<mic drop and exit left w/ flame suit> ... before i offend anyone, let me add the mandatory

 

[SocketRocket]

Your typical 'Silly Boy' responce.

 

[SocketRocket]

I dont think that is a new approach with the Tories.... Isnt Brexit also in a similar category...
<mic drop and exit left w/ flame suit>

No.

 

[Mudball]

Thanks for that, I hadn't heard of that before. My only concern would be whether it was possible to remove the wristband and leave it at home while I went out shopping. I'm not trying to denigrate the system, as at first look it seems better than anything we currently have in place, but just wondered how east it was to subvert the aims of it.

yup.. no 100% solutions out there... perhaps only lockdowns, social engineering and shoot-at-sight orders.. I am waiting for Charles Trywitt to launch a mask that is colour coordinated with the shirt. They could just convert all the ties to masks... jobs a gudden

 

[Mudball]

No.

fixed that... it is not just the young who can be snowflakes (just saying )

 

[Foxholer]

...
PFI deals are also screwing a lot of trusts. The charges are obscene. Blair and Brown should be ashamed of themselves for bringing PFI in.

FWIW, PFI originated in Major's term as PM.
But Brown (particularly/specifically) 'went to town' wih it.
In fact (well, my opinion!), many of the deals are relatively reasonable - even some of the massive ones like at Barts (building an entire hospital). While still an enormous amount, debt servicing by Barts, which may include other obligations) is less than 8% of it budget.
The obscene parts of PFI agreements are (or at least were) generally in the small print of 'general maintenance' where the cost of the likes of changing a lightbulb are massive!

 

[Foxholer]

Your typical 'Silly Boy' responce.

 

[Foxholer]

I dont think that is a new approach with the Tories.... Isnt Brexit also in a similar category...
<mic drop and exit left w/ flame suit> ... before i offend anyone, let me add the mandatory

Made me chuckle! Thanks!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Hancock thinks we should now use the notebook and pencil strategy suggested by a drove of elderly experts on the IOW six weeks ago.
My goodness it really is getting like Handcock's half hour.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Hancock thinks we should now use the notebook and pencil strategy suggested by a drove of elderly experts on the IOW six weeks ago.
My goodness it really is getting like Handcock's half hour.

Can you tell us where he said that?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I don't see the term "right wing" as being extremist, I'm sure there are plenty Tories who are happy to be called right wing. I also don't see "left wing" as being extremist either, if you called me left wing, I wouldn't be upset. If you said "extreme left", or if I said "extreme right", that would be different.

As for 1828, I haven't read the detail of what they have proposed, only that they want to abolish the NHS and replace it with an insurance-based system. How does that work for those who can't afford insurance? If they get the same level of healthcare for free, how does it differ from the current system where those who can afford to do so, pay NI?[/QUOTE]

Quite. We don't often agree( seems I'm one of your right wingers ?), but the above in bold is a very good point.
As soon as I see insurance mentioned in terms of health care, I.e private as opposed to NHS, then I am very wary.
The whole point of insurance is that some are low risk ( low premiums) and those at high risk face high premiums.Basic law if insurance as I see it.
So in a private health insurance scheme, if you become chronically sick, you surely face crippling premiums, or maybe even insurance cover is withdrawn.

In another thread, some on here have examples about their pets insurance rise in premiums as their dogs get older. Exponential rises in premiums.
Don't accuse me , in deflection, of likening people with dogs , ( I prefer the latter, BTW?)
but the same principles would be applied by insurance companies. I cannot see it any other way.
NHS is the only civilised system , IMO. Sure, it should be run better, but as system of health care for a nation, it cannot be bettered.
If you support the private health system , have a look at a speech made by JFK, about health care. (It's findable online). It may surprise you, considering he was an American.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

NHS is the only civilised system , IMO. Sure, it should be run better, but as system of health care for a nation, it cannot be bettered.
If you support the private health system , have a look at a speech made by JFK, about health care. (It's findable online). It may surprise you, considering he was an American.

Sorry but that's where we go wrong in this country. Assuming that the NHS is the only civilised system and cannot be bettered.

I don't know whether it is or not, in certain areas of treatment it does seem to fall short of other countries.

But until it and any alternatives are fully investigated we none of us know.

The health provision in the other countries I previously mentioned could never be described as private or "devil take the hindmost", and I would never advocate the American system.

But we should always keep searching if for no other reason than to ensure that whatever service we have it is best serving society.