Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[pendodave]

This is our problem.
My daughter is a primary teacher.
My wife is shielding .
She is scared she will bring it home.
I don’t see how she can make an informed decision atm.
Lots of teachers in this position.

I can see that this is a genuine problem, but can we not be proactive about this?
Identify staff who are NOT in this position and are able to work.
Offer alternative accommodation to staff who are living with at risk people (but are not their carers).
Just turning off education for millions of kids until an indeterminate future date when all covid is eradicated doesn't seem like a very thoughtful approach.

 

[Foxholer]

My friend in Wilts cannot meet with his mum and dad but he can now put his house on the buyers market.
His mum and dad will be viewing his house three times a week until lockdown ends.

Would have to do so separately, if also meeting him though, otherwise he (you friend) would be breaking the rules!

 

[Hobbit]

I don’t think it’s a stretch to see that some teachers along with unions are using the situation to score political points.

The teacher that Sky interviewed saying she doesn’t trust Boris Johnson and his stats etc turned out to be a left wing political activist.

So far and ?it stays that way the virus doesn’t seem to be affecting the under 18’s to any great extent - believe it’s 10 under 18’s who have passed away with 9 having serious medical conditions but its going into the unknown.

Whilst there will be teachers who are worried about the virus and the potential damage it could cause if it went through schools the only way is to take people at face value

And if there are teachers that are using it to score political points then they just join thousands of others that are doing - including a good number on here.

I watched the brief last night, and saw some of the ridiculous comments on here. And I've watched it again this morning and then looked at the 5 tests the teacher's union have asked for. I think the union are right to ask for most of what they've asked for...... and strangely enough the testing, and contact tracing, of pupils and teachers was just one of the things covered by last night's brief.

But irrespective of anyone's like or dislike of Gavin Williamson and the Tories, people need to consider not just what the scientific expert said but the tone of her briefing. It was considered and intelligent, and had no bias to it. She spoke of the science, not the politics. If others less scientifically 'aware' want to go against the experts... isn't that just a little Luddite-ish?

I do think there's politics in play here. Some may not even recognise it in themselves, their 'conscious' mistrust of the Tories clouding their views.

That said, I'd prefer the schools not to open in 2 weeks time. Opening in 2 weeks time, in such a limited way, with only 6 weeks of the school years left and pupils not even attending full time just seems a pointless risk. An alternative might be to stop the home schooling now. Give everyone a break but restart the school year in the 3rd week of August and, maybe, pinch some days from the half terms and end of term holidays to make up for the time lost now.

But as for the comment of the Tories looking to drive a division between the union and the teachers or having a go at the teachers in last night's brief - stay off the mushrooms.

 

[DanFST]

ITV - "can you guarantee the R rate won't increase"...how do these morons get, and keep, their jobs?

Leave it out, It's not like they've had 9 weeks to learn about it.....

 

[rudebhoy]

That is a possible scenario.

Not necessarily "a very likely " one.

The evidence, either way, is not being presented to teachers to enable them to make an informed rather than emotional decision.

My wife was in work on Friday, setting up her Reception classroom in line with the guidance they have been given. So she has seen the conditions she will be working in. She also knows how 4 year olds interact, and she also knows she will have no protective equipment. Kids of that age are very tactile, forever snotting over teachers, and it's quite common for them to soil themselves, and the staff have to clean them up.

I'd say those factors enable her to make an informed decision rather than an emotional one.

Outside of the NHS and care homes, I can't think of a sector who are being asked to put themselves at such a degree of risk.

 

[Foxholer]

The pattern I do see clearly is your “anti English” and anti government angle that you display on every post you make.

You appear to be incapable of posting with any balance beyond chips on both shoulders

And that’s also relevant for the “government can do no wrong” and the people that leap on anyone who displays any sort of critical point whether that be minor or major.

Perhaps you should read the title of the thread!

 

[rudebhoy]

Who says that teachers are "scared stiff"?.

My wife said to me. They had a full staff meeting on Friday and that was how the vast majority of them felt.

I'm sure it's the same same in every primary school across the country, but no doubt you know better.

 

[Foxholer]

ITV - "can you guarantee the R rate won't increase"...how do these morons get, and keep, their jobs?

I don't see anything wrong with that question! It actually covers a couple of points (both importance of 'the metric' and the effect of whatever they were asking about). It also invites the interviewee to discuss rather than simply answer 'Yes/No', which is a large part of the interviewer's role. And, in the case of re-opening schools, the interviewee gets to state what action will be taken to ensure hat the 'R' rate in the specific school environment doesn't rise.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

My wife said to me. They had a full staff meeting on Friday and that was how the vast majority of them felt.

I'm sure it's the same same in every primary school across the country, but no doubt you know better.

Well it isn't the case in the school where my son teaches.

I am not for one minute suggesting that the teachers should not be very concerned.

But it would help them to personally reach their decision if the evidence was properly presented rather than the present position which does appear, at least to some teachers, to be more than a little politically motivated.

 

[pendodave]

An alternative might be to stop the home schooling now. Give everyone a break but restart the school year in the 3rd week of August and, maybe, pinch some days from the half terms and end of term holidays to make up for the time lost now.

Yep. Another decent idea. We can't just go on sitting around waiting for something that isn't going to happen. Peoples' lives are currently being (mis)shaped by this and, as ever, it will be those least able who will be hit the hardest.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Given that DFT has quoted the BMA, the opposition parties, the teachers and the unions, all of whom are predominantly English, I hardly think you can call that an anti-English post.

This just seems to be a cheap shot favoured by a number of posters on here, playing the man and not the ball again. It's getting pretty tedious.

Thank you, yes it is getting more than a bit tedious. But I am well used to it by now.
Funny how a wee while ago a poster who has spent much time strongly critical of BBC anti UK government comments suddenly 'likes' a BBC anti Scottish government post.
Lots of double standards around I am afraid.
Wales Scotland and NI with three totally different political values but only one seems to come under attack from Johnson supporters for taking the same stance.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I don't see anything wrong with that question! It actually covers a couple of points (both importance of 'the metric' and the effect of whatever they were asking about). It also invites the interviewee to discuss rather than simply answer 'Yes/No', which is a large part of the interviewer's role. And, in the case of re-opening schools, the interviewee gets to state what action will be taken to ensure hat the 'R' rate in the specific school environment doesn't rise.

Seriously?

Do you really think it would be possible for a "guarantee" to be given with all that would imply.

Perhaps a question along the lines of "How certain can you be?" but to expect a guaranteed answer was beyond the level of naivety I would expect even from a TV journalist.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Well it isn't the case in the school where my son teaches.

I am not for one minute suggesting that the teachers should not be very concerned.

But it would help them to personally reach their decision if the evidence was properly presented rather than the present position which does appear, at least to some teachers, to be more than a little politically motivated.

There is also an inherent distrust of unions from many which is politically motivated so alternatively maybe just maybe they are doing their job and are looking after their members by looking for reassurances. A few teachers have already sadly passed away early in this situation and the scientific studies are low and conflicting.
Some see the word union and automatically come to a conclusion so maybe should follow their own advice about not having a preset anti opinion.

 

[rudebhoy]

Well it isn't the case in the school where my son teaches.

I am not for one minute suggesting that the teachers should not be very concerned.

But it would help them to personally reach their decision if the evidence was properly presented rather than the present position which does appear, at least to some teachers, to be more than a little politically motivated.

What "Evidence" do you think the teachers are missing?

They watch the same daily briefings that the rest of us do.

They know the conditions they are going to have to work in.

They know how 4 and 5 years old behave.

That's more than enough evidence to make an informed decision.

I'd be interested to know why your son isn't scared. What age group does he teach?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

There is also an inherent distrust of unions from many which is politically motivated so alternatively maybe just maybe they are doing their job and are looking after their members by looking for reassurances. A few teachers have already sadly passed away early in this situation and the scientific studies are low and conflicting.
Some see the word union and automatically come to a conclusion so maybe should follow their own advice about not having a preset anti opinion.

Mine is not an anti-union position.

It is a position in support of democracy i.e. consult your members before making such important statements regarding their willingness to return to the classroom.

It was this type of ideological posturing that led to the demise of the NUM.

The miners of the East Midlands largely continued to work not because they were scabs but because Scargill didn't think he needed to consult them.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Mine is not an anti-union position.

It is a position in support of democracy i.e. consult your members before making such important statements regarding their willingness to return to the classroom.

It was this type of ideological posturing that led to the demise of the NUM.

The miners of the East Midlands largely continued to work not because they were scabs but because Scargill didn't think he needed to consult them.

The NUM was the very worst type of union which did no favours to the concept but you cannot tar them all with the same brush. In this particular scenario you can't possibly be consulting all your members all of the time with such a fluid situation, it's members need to trust that they have their best interests at heart and are working towards finding a solution. I have a 3 and 7yo and would love them to be back but the evidence needs to be their about how safe it will be for all.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I can see that this is a genuine problem, but can we not be proactive about this?
Identify staff who are NOT in this position and are able to work.
Offer alternative accommodation to staff who are living with at risk people (but are not their carers).
Just turning off education for millions of kids until an indeterminate future date when all covid is eradicated doesn't seem like a very thoughtful approach.

My dilemma with the schools situation is that I want to see children being educated, but I want to see people not being put at unnecessary risk.
Someone made a point about what does a few weeks difference make to 4 -5 yr olds not going to school. - Good point, period.
Although we have eased lockdown , the emphasis is still on social distancing is it not?
However, kids mingling at school can and will pass on the virus. Not so much because they have covid, but because they touch almost everything in reach including each other etc, and this virus can go from one household to others so easily via the kids., just by touch.
Adults at the child's home are practising SD, but it can all be undone by the child bringing it home, and thus the whole household get it .

I am led to the conclusion that at this time it is better for young children to stay home until the R number is appreciably lower.

 

[Foxholer]

Seriously?

Do you really think it would be possible for a "guarantee" to be given with all that would imply.

Perhaps a question along the lines of "How certain can you be?" but to expect a guaranteed answer was beyond the level of naivety I would expect even from a TV journalist.

Expecting a 'guarantee' answer is only as 'Seriously?'-ish as expecting the interviewee to give one! It's the way most interviewers work - the likes of Piers Morgan (who would be far more aggressive) excepted!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

What "Evidence" do you think the teachers are missing?

They watch the same daily briefings that the rest of us do.

They know the conditions they are going to have to work in.

They know how 4 and 5 years old behave.

That's more than enough evidence to make an informed decision.

I'd be interested to know why your son isn't scared. What age group does he teach?

The transmission rate from children, including those who are asymptomatic remains unclear.

I would suggest that this is essential information.

My son teaches Years 4 & 5 but assures me that his colleagues teaching the reception and Year 1 & 6 share his views. In any event to incorporate the proposed changes in classroom practices all teaching staff at his school will be involved .

He also has two children of his own of primary school age, one of whom is in Year 1.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

but the evidence needs to be their about how safe it will be for all.

And that is precisely my point.

Evidence should be provided to parents and teachers but at the moment the waters appear to be muddied by some making decisions based upon politics rather than science.