Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SocketRocket]

Someone mentioned that the passing of the infection between the young and their teachers isn't known. Unfortunately the only way to find out is by the children going back to school. Isn't that like inventing dynamite and asking shall I hold it in one hand and see what happens when I put a match to it?

I'm sure when dynamite was invented it was for a specific purpose of blowing things up so that wouldnt be a great idea ?
The difficulty is knowing when the right time is here, I guess the answer is 'when it's safe for them' but people cant have their cake and eat it, Children either stay away from school until the virus is under control or when theres a chance they could catch and spread it. A really difficult decision and one I'm glad I dont have to make.

 

[pendodave]

Someone mentioned that the passing of the infection between the young and their teachers isn't known. Unfortunately the only way to find out is by the children going back to school. Isn't that like inventing dynamite and asking shall I hold it in one hand and see what happens when I put a match to it?

Despite there being many unknowns, what IS known is that children are essentially unaffected by the virus, and if the teacher is under the age of 40 without any significant health issues, so are they.
There has to be a better way of managing this. We also know for sure that that for many young people, their only way out of some very grim situations is a decent education.

 

[drdel]

The virus is pretty mild in the vast majority of people. Those below 60 are unlikely to need hospitalisation.

Risks to kids are low to very low and most teachers are quite young so provided SD with the vulnerable is maintained the rise in 'R' is also very low.

The level of the rate of infection is very low across most of the UK.

The data bank used by the modellers is vast and the models would not be understood by lay people so releasing the evidence is just not feasible. In any case the data is in the public domain (ONS).

The virus is already within the community so, although low, the risk is going to be prevalent for years. Waiting much longer is not a realistic proposition.

 

[SocketRocket]

Mick Cash the Leader of the Rail and Transport Union was on the last question time. Did anyone who saw it rate him well?

 

[Hobbit]

Despite there being many unknowns, what IS known is that children are essentially unaffected by the virus, and if the teacher is under the age of 40 without any significant health issues, so are they.
There has to be a better way of managing this. We also know for sure that that for many young people, their only way out of some very grim situations is a decent education.

I think it needs a change of mindset. As unpalatable as it might seem to some we need to accept that it is another disease that will sit in the background of our life. Unfortunately it isn't there yet.

Typhoid sits in the background, as does cholera, Dengue fever and a whole host of very nasty diseases. Go back not that far in history and you'll find polio was greatly feared(60's), and it isn't that long ago that Smallpox was officially eradicated.

Call it birthing pains for want of a better way but, eventually, Covid needs to be thought of in the same way.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

The virus is pretty mild in the vast majority of people. Those below 60 are unlikely to need hospitalisation.

Risks to kids are low to very low and most teachers are quite young so provided SD with the vulnerable is maintained the rise in 'R' is also very low.

The level of the rate of infection is very low across most of the UK.

The data bank used by the modellers is vast and the models would not be understood by lay people so releasing the evidence is just not feasible. In any case the data is in the public domain (ONS).

The virus is already within the community so, although low, the risk is going to be prevalent for years. Waiting much longer is not a realistic proposition.

They don't understand yet how the virus is spread among children, how easily it can be passed onto adults by children and when they do what kind of viral load they can carry. Maybe it would be prudent to wait another month whilst data is collected from other nations who are going back.
I also think when the kids do go back they should provide free after school care so grand parents aren't doing the wrap around care otherwise we run the strong possibility of another surge in the over 65's

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Mick Cash the Leader of the Rail and Transport Union was on the last question time. Did anyone who saw it rate him well?

So let's write off all the rest of his union because you don't like him?

 

[pendodave]

I think it needs a change of mindset. As unpalatable as it might seem to some we need to accept that it is another disease that will sit in the background of our life. Unfortunately it isn't there yet.

Typhoid sits in the background, as does cholera, Dengue fever and a whole host of very nasty diseases. Go back not that far in history and you'll find polio was greatly feared(60's), and it isn't that long ago that Smallpox was officially eradicated.

Call it birthing pains for want of a better way but, eventually, Covid needs to be thought of in the same way.

This is it in a nutshell.
We just don't seem to have managed to get there just yet!
Measles is contagious, actually kills and damages children (much more than covid), yet we accept it as a risk of sending kids to school.
There's obviously not a perfect solution, but at the moment we don't seem particularly close to even a least bad one.

 

[Foxholer]

The virus is pretty mild in the vast majority of people. Those below 60 are unlikely to need hospitalisation.
Risks to kids are low to very low and most teachers are quite young so provided SD with the vulnerable is maintained the rise in 'R' is also very low.
The level of the rate of infection is very low across most of the UK.
...

Legitimate reasoning for satisfaction (perhaps) of the 'Protect the NHS' slogan ONLY. And I'd disagree with 0,7 to 1.0 being 'very low'! 'Manageable' (2 steps up) would likely be a better description imo. Kids of the type identified seem, to me, to be the group most likely to break the SD rule - without a lot of education about why it's required at school and not at home. It's quite possible that closing schools was one of the most significant decisions that refuced 'R'!

...
The data bank used by the modellers is vast and the models would not be understood by lay people so releasing the evidence is just not feasible. In any case the data is in the public domain (ONS).
....

Then someone needs to (honestly) summarise it for 'the Public' if they (especially sceptics with 'axes to grind') are to be convinced that decisions based upon it are legitimate!

...
The virus is already within the community so, although low, the risk is going to be prevalent for years. ...

That's why it's imperative an anti-virus is developed! But that's still a considerable way off.

...
...Waiting much longer is not a realistic proposition.

It would be an absolute disaster if all the sacrifice - economic and social - was wasted by a too early return to 'normality'!

 

[pendodave]

So let's write off all the rest of his union because you don't like him?

We need a separate thread for this!!

 

[Foxholer]

Mick Cash the Leader of the Rail and Transport Union was on the last question time. Did anyone who saw it rate him well?

Notwithstanding a (legitimate) bias towards Union members rather than 'the Public', this article https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...R65BcG6hkVnX2z7lX7-KSVzmYShgTeUyVeQaYRjhd64Pk seemed to be common sense!

 

[patricks148]

Fair point.

The problem, of course, lies in the apathy displayed by much of unions' membership.

As a result the leadership is very rarely, if ever, truly representative of it's members.

And with a FPTP system the same is true of government.

its it the Unions responsibility to act in the best interested of its members?

are you saying they are not?

 

[Kellfire]

This is it in a nutshell.
We just don't seem to have managed to get there just yet!
Measles is contagious, actually kills and damages children (much more than covid), yet we accept it as a risk of sending kids to school.
There's obviously not a perfect solution, but at the moment we don't seem particularly close to even a least bad one.

Good example you used with measles as it’s new, not totally understood and we don’t have a vaccination for it.

Oh wait no, that’s the opposite of the truth about measles.

 

[clubchamp98]

Despite there being many unknowns, what IS known is that children are essentially unaffected by the virus, and if the teacher is under the age of 40 without any significant health issues, so are they.
There has to be a better way of managing this. We also know for sure that that for many young people, their only way out of some very grim situations is a decent education.

A lot of those teachers still live with their parents though.
That’s a problem.
It’s the Head Teachers that are driving this atm they are in touch with their staff and the Unions.
Sage is saying it’s safe, but they said that about Care Homes as well and that didn’t pan out to well.

 

[doublebogey7]

This is it in a nutshell.
We just don't seem to have managed to get there just yet!
Measles is contagious, actually kills and damages children (much more than covid), yet we accept it as a risk of sending kids to school.
There's obviously not a perfect solution, but at the moment we don't seem particularly close to even a least bad one.

Except we have a vacine for measles, we are a long way from having one for CV

 

[Old Skier]

So the BMA, the Teachers, the right wing unionist NI Assembly, the left wing Welsh Labour Government, the centre left Scots Government, many local mayors and local governments, the NHS, nearly all the unions and I think all of the opposition parties think Johnson acted to early and/or is unprepared for easing lockdown.
I am beginning to see a bit of a pattern here.

Yep, the pattern is, it's back to being political

 

[pendodave]

From the point of view of child health, one is far more unpleasant than the other, and it's not the one without the vaccine.

 

[Reemul]

The transmission rate from children, including those who are asymptomatic remains unclear.

I would suggest that this is essential information.

My son teaches Years 4 & 5 but assures me that his colleagues teaching the reception and Year 1 & 6 share his views. In any event to incorporate the proposed changes in classroom practices all teaching staff at his school will be involved .

He also has two children of his own of primary school age, one of whom is in Year 1.

My wife is year 2 teacher, her teachers feel year's key stage 2 pupils would have a far better understanding of SD than KS1 and year's 5 and 6 should be going back not reception and year 1. I cannot talk for any other teachers anywhere else.

I still have a massive dislike for anyone that seems to say because someone I know thinks this so it must be true or representative of others.

 

[drdel]

The safe assumption is that kids will be just as infectious as adults. The impact may differ with age but IMO the transmission propensity ain't going to be significantly different.

 

[rudebhoy]

Is there any scientific rationale behind the decision to send 4 and 5 year olds back to school long before sending teenagers back?

Or is a purely political decision based on it being an expedient way of providing free day care for younger kids so their parents can go back to work, while teenagers can fend for themselves?