Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 16999]

I did research the author, and I do know how much his politics have shifted further and further left in the last 4 years. If he'd been more of a centrist and it didn't have the Momentum banner I might have given it more credibility. But it doesn't take being a brain surgeon to know that every political leader is getting a huge amount of stick at present.

Having questions posed as Charlie Stayt did this morning on the breakfast news is exactly the right way to do it. None of the questions were designed to trip the guy up. They were simple, transparent questions that we could all understand. And it didn't need clever dick questions to trip the Minister up, he achieved that quite admirably by his own foot in the mouth responses.

You got further than me, the momentum banner killed it stone dead.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Nadine Dorries - Health Minister - tweets a doctored and libelous video about Keir Starmer when he was DPP. Pathetic and desperate by someone who might just be a little worried that in the HoC Starmer is matching up very well indeed against our PM. Tweet now deleted...

May also be why Jacob Rees-Mogg is suggesting that MPs should return to the HoC - perhaps he is thinking that Johnson needs his backing choir and audience to be effective. Well - who knows.

Funnily enough she’s deleted the tweet and Caufield who retweeted it has closed her account.

 

[Wolf]

Funnily enough she’s deleted the tweet and Caufield who retweeted it has closed her account.

Must've still had thousands of views before being deleted. I'd like to see Dorries & Caufield held to account for their actions but we know they won't be.

Have to say depsite everything going on including the slurs people are trying to raise, I've been hugely impressed by Starmer so far in how he has spoken and his interactions in PMQs, could potentially be the start of a very good opposition.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

No Doon I very much get it and you using Cameron is pure deflection as that was in 2016, yet independence vote was 2 years prior which you always go on about, I may not have been here all that long but your posts have much more basis on what happened and you lost in 2014 than what Cameron did in 2016.

Yet there is my point in your post your stating its England's fault and no accountability for your own posts, nobody makes you post constant anti English guff thats purely your own choice to do so.... Be careful not to fall off that high horse I hear its a long fall from such a self imposed lofty position.

Goodness me....Where have I said that it is England's fault

Are you even aware that Johnson and The Tory party are UK Government institutions within the UK.
To make it simple for you, Johnson broadcast information UK wide, without a disclaimer that, if the residents of NI, Wales and Scotland had followed would have put their lives at risk and lead to their arrest and possible imprisonment. Is that something that you would support.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The clarity of 20/20 vision brought by hindsight. You stated "... everything possible should have been done from the outset to prevent the virus..." I'm curious how you decided when the date was that was the exact point of "outset" relevant to the vast range and diverse sizes of businesses and local authority run premises defined as 'care homes'.

I'm just thinking that the vulnerability of the elderly in care homes was surely obvious and well understood - and given what was happening in Italy and Spain we perhaps should have just locked down care homes during that initial Containment Phase (what I mean by 'from the outset') to mitigate the risk as much as possible.

Unfortunately from what I am hearing it seems we are following a similar approach at the moment. Open things up and only when a second spike appears to be happening then apply appropriate measures. That is fine and it may be the only approach. However, the risk of that is clear - as it is likely to be the case that when a new spike is noticed, it may be too late to stop it unless we have robust and efficient testing; contact tracing, and immediate lock-down measures ready and waiting to be applied - and a population ready and primed to accept immediate imposition of further lockdown.

So when I ask for the lessons we have learnt, I simply want to hear the government tell us of their learning or mistakes made - to tell us, given the learning and mistakes, pretty precisely what the strategy will be when a second spike is detected in an area or wider. And telling me it'll be a 'whack-a-mole' strategy doesn't tell me how.

 

[Slab]

Goodness me....Where have I said that it is England's fault

Are you even aware that Johnson and The Tory party are UK Government institutions within the UK.
To make it simple for you, Johnson broadcast information UK wide, without a disclaimer that, if the residents of NI, Wales and Scotland had followed would have put their lives at risk and lead to their arrest and possible imprisonment. Is that something that you would support.

You have to imagine that by now everyone is Scotland is aware that the lockdown rules differ from those in England. I mean i'm 10,000km away and fully aware the rules diverged recently
So I suspect pretty low odds that folks don’t know... oh and arrest for a breach is by no means a foregone conclusion as you suggest (why not just pop the word ‘could’ in there and it really doesn’t lessen your message/point… but does make it accurate) could put lives at risk, could lead to arrest

 

[Wolf]

Goodness me....Where have I said that it is England's fault



Are you even aware that Johnson and The Tory party are UK Government institutions within the UK.

To make it simple for you, Johnson broadcast information UK wide, without a disclaimer that, if the residents of NI, Wales and Scotland had followed would have put their lives at risk and lead to their arrest and possible imprisonment. Is that something that you would support.

Perhaps you should try reading nearly everything you post which is littered with anti English rhetoric..

Am I aware, unless I've been living in a cave im pretty sure I'm well aware of the country's political situation and how it works. Certainly don't need your patronising spoon-fed making it easier description, but thanks for assuming I'm thick and don't understand like you??

I've also never said I support any of the lifting of restrictions or what Boris said on Sunday, I actually am on record here on the forum stating how ambiguous and unclear it came across thus I waited to see full document release before deciding what my own actions further would be. So no need to ask me what I would or wouldn't support, as the only thing I support is what's is best for the people as whole, and I even acknowledged on another thread how I felt Nicola had best intentions for Scotland which I'd fully support ??

As for further interactions on this with you I'm out, ??

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You have to imagine that by now everyone is Scotland is aware that the lockdown rules differ from those in England. I mean i'm 10,000km away and fully aware the rules diverged recently
So I suspect pretty low odds that folks don’t know... oh and arrest for a breach is by no means a foregone conclusion as you suggest (why not just pop the word ‘could’ in there and it really doesn’t lessen your message/point… but does make it accurate) could put lives at risk, could lead to arrest

Thing is - many in Scotland have no time whatsoever for the Scottish FM (not only Yoonies) and may choose to not believe a word she says (or if they did they'd deny it ) - possibly choosing instead to follow the guidance from Westminster. I only half jest.

 

[Foxholer]

You know full well that all Ministers can do is mobilise the resources they do not control how the medical profession and others take up and use the capacity made available.
...

Er...Actually, No I don't! They keep being 'political', something they should avoid in these sort of situations!
Then they shouldn't make big announcements about targets that are 'daft', then fudge subsequent figures indicating 'failure' to cover their backsides! Then make another 'daft' target to distract from the legitimate criticism of not meeting their first 'target'! But that's probably something they can't help doing - it's just the way their minds work!

...
Do you want compulsory random testing?

I'm not opposed to that - at least if it reduces 'R'! I'm sure it was considered - and probably rejected as 'not "cost-effective" ' The 'targeted' testing that is being proposed via the app seems like it would be more cost/resource effective though - but that's something for experts (the likes of SAGE) to consider, not me! Anything that effectively combats the virus, and reduces the death count (and keeping the NHS from being overloaded) is fine by me, which is why 'lock-down' is acceptable - and why I get angry at those who flout the SD 'rules'!

 

[Foxholer]

Try and understand this: I'm not interested in your opinion on that issue, I wasnt discussing it and you decided to interject my post with it, my post asked someone else their views on how logistics could have been improved to create more testing facities. Keep on about missing targets if it suits you but dont drag me it. How can I copout of an issue I'm not posting about ?

Then resist replying! But you can't! A classic case of (chronic) Last Word Syndrome!
Resist!

 

[SocketRocket]

Then resist replying! But you can't! A classic case of (chronic) Last Word Syndrome!
Resist!

Complete Twaddle Foxy. You have been calling me out for not commenting on testing numbers when I wasn't even discussing them. I don't want the last word, I just want you to stop attempting to put words into my mouth.
Resist yourself old boy

 

[Foxholer]

Complete Twaddle Foxy. You have been calling me out for not commenting on testing numbers when I wasn't even discussing them. I don't want the last word, I just want you to stop attempting to put words into my mouth.
Resist yourself old boy

Twaddle indeed - on your part! Your selection of 'testing numbers' was merely an excuse! Resist your LWS and the 'disease' evaporates!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Nadine Dorries - Health Minister - tweets a doctored and libelous video about Keir Starmer when he was DPP. Pathetic and desperate by someone who might just be a little worried that in the HoC Starmer is matching up very well indeed against our PM. Tweet now deleted...

May also be why Jacob Rees-Mogg is suggesting that MPs should return to the HoC - perhaps he is thinking that Johnson needs his backing choir and audience to be effective. Well - who knows.

Don't see what any of what you've written has to do with corona virus?
Got your spade again??

 

[Old Skier]

Well Scotland are doing everything right and the only reason the R number is higher is because we're so in front of them on the Covid timeline! Keep moving that out to explain the R rate. Can't get my head around how a population of 6m, and so spread are still having a high rate of infection...

I'm only saying that in a response to his attitude (them and us) and really shouldn't but patience runs thin sometimes.

Maybe there are even more people in Scotland ignoring their leader than there are in England. They have history of ignoring the SNP.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Just deflection.
I saw the video a while ago on facebook but it reappeared yesterday on twitter so unsure of origin but why not watch? I am expected to and do watch all the Govt propaganda/lies on a daily basis if I watch the news so why not see a different view - it's pretty short video and evidences boris's actual words and then disagree vehemently?
Not so much anti government but definitely anti Johnson, not because he isn't a character, just that he is not cut out to be a PM and proves that on an almost daily basis.
Watch the short video or else there's little point commenting.

Japan has more crowding than UK with about 125 million to our 67 million and their deaths are a mere fraction of ours.

Yes, you're right about Japan, and it is puzzling. I cannot find out much about it and why their figures are what they are.Its not as if they have taken draconian lockdown measures, in fact, as far as I can tell, they have been a lot more lax than Europe ( until recently), which rather makes it puzzling.
It doesn't seem down to any of their Governments initiatives.
Saw a comment that their non-shaking of hands culture ( bowing instead) may be something to do with it!!?
Don't know. However the last chart I saw showed their graphs rising- peak still to come.
Don't suppose ethnicity comes into it?

 

[SocketRocket]

Twaddle indeed - on your part! Your selection of 'testing numbers' was merely an excuse! Resist your LWS and the 'disease' evaporates!

Twaddle, I'm not interest in your silly game playing.
Go away.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Don't see what any of what you've written has to do with corona virus?
Got your spade again??

I do tend to think that attempts by a government health minster to undermine the leader of the opposition as he is asking our PM actually quite basic questions about his handling of possibly the greatest UK health issue of modern times is worthy of note. But I shan't mention it further on this thread.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Yes, you're right about Japan, and it is puzzling. I cannot find out much about it and why their figures are what they are.Its not as if they have taken draconian lockdown measures, in fact, as far as I can tell, they have been a lot more lax than Europe ( until recently), which rather makes it puzzling.
It doesn't seem down to any of their Governments initiatives.
Saw a comment that their non-shaking of hands culture ( bowing instead) may be something to do with it!!?
Don't know. However the last chart I saw showed their graphs rising- peak still to come.
Don't suppose ethnicity comes into it?

Also a lot of people in Japan wear masks regularly anyway so that could also be helping keep the numbers down.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I get so frustrated at times listening to government ministers being questioned - not (always) because they don't answer the question - but when they don't really address the important issue underlying the questioning.

So this morning Brandon Lewis was being interviewed on Today about care homes - given things are currently dire. After the interview was over I was left thinking - Well if the government did all the right things at the right time for care homes, and always had care homes as a focus - then what the hell has gone wrong...? Is that it - nothing different could have been done?

At some point the virus will be under control in the community and in the care home setting. But it is highly probable that infections in the community will start to increase again. What I want to hear from the government is what the government will do differently - what will they tell care homes to do differently - what do care homes have to do in respect of preparation for when that increase in infections is detected.

But at the moment, as this morning from Brandon Lewis, all I am hearing on this is ministers saying that for care homes they did all the right things at the right time. And that doesn't give me great confidence. They surely must know what preparations for the future must be put in place by care homes asap, and what the government must do differently. Not hearing enough of it at the moment, and from some right wing outlets we seem to be hearing less on that at the moment than we are hearing and seeing finger pointing at teachers and the teaching unions.

What was done back February and early March clearly didn't work for care homes and their elderly residents. Just tell us where things could have been done better, and because of that next time we'll do it this way. That's all. That's openness, honesty and clarity.

 

[Wolf]

I get so frustrated at times listening to government ministers being questioned - not (always) because they don't answer the question - but when they don't really address the important issue underlying the questioning.

So this morning Brandon Lewis was being interviewed on Today about care homes - given things are currently dire. After the interview was over I was left thinking - Well if the government did all the right things at the right time for care homes, and always had care homes as a focus - then what the hell has gone wrong...? Is that it - nothing different could have been done?

At some point the virus will be under control in the community and in the care home setting. But it is highly probable that infections in the community will start to increase again. What I want to hear from the government is what the government will do differently - what will they tell care homes to do differently - what do care homes have to do in respect of preparation for when that increase in infections is detected.

But at the moment, as this morning from Brandon Lewis, all I am hearing on this is ministers saying that for care homes they did all the right things at the right time. And that doesn't give me great confidence. They surely must know what preparations for the future must be put in place by care homes asap, and what the government must do differently. Not hearing enough of it at the moment, and from some right wing outlets we seem to be hearing less on that at the moment than we are hearing and seeing finger pointing at teachers and the teaching unions.

What was done back February and early March clearly didn't work for care homes and their elderly residents. Just tell us where things could have been done better, and because of that next time we'll do it this way. That's all. That's openness, honesty and clarity.

A big issue a hell of a lot of care homes need to address during and after his period is to start acting ultimately as care homes and not businesses.

I'm not for one second defending the government here as there is clearly a lot of areas they need to improve and be more transparent on with what's happening within the care homes but there is a huge portion of care homes that simply don't provide anywhere near enough actual care or provision of equipment to staff and residents alike because ultimately they're a profit making business. Obviously this is a generalisation as there will be some fantastic ones out there, but my own experiences of them is not a good one.

I'd personally like to see a full review of care homes, how they're run and what should be expected as care standards for residents, staff and more accountability for anyone not meeting those standards. Including better education & qualifications for the staff. As part of that review I'd like to see better government infrastructure & input into these areas with more transparency, future planning and guidance to help care homes.