Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Swinglowandslow]

I likewise would be somewhat uneasy - but though it's not possible I think I'd rather have Starmer at the helm today...(is that a political soundbite? )

No.....course not?

 

[AmandaJR]

OOps bound to happen Thar she blows....….Sun reporter getting handed his bottom on a plate by Nicola this afternoon.

She did really well. Usually no time for the woman and her views but she politley told them to listen to what she was saying. The first question from the BBC was laughable as he literally asked a question that had been clearly stated and, therefore, answered, in her briefing.

 

[Ethan]

Is there any evidence from countries that have had aggressive contact tracing policies how many tests per day we'd require for that?

I am sure there is, but it also depends how you define close contact. The more rigorous the definition, the fewer the contacts. I suspect that for most people it is not more than a handful. Healthcare staff and their work contacts would be dealt with separately. It should be possible to come up with a definition which was operable.

 

[BrianM]

I am sure there is, but it also depends how you define close contact. The more rigorous the definition, the fewer the contacts. I suspect that for most people it is not more than a handful. Healthcare staff and their work contacts would be dealt with separately. It should be possible to come up with a definition which was operable.

Ethan, Have doctors been told that once a person has Covid 19, they are pretty much immune?
Sorry for going off track, I just know your a doctor and in the know..
It might help as I’m looking to get a new job, Thanks.

 

[rudebhoy]

To be fair, the alternative is largely China. A country well known for ...........................

Due to the desire for lower costs, cheap everything, the main sources for these items are low cost, low everything countries. The payback for that is every so often you get bitten. If you want products that are well manufactured, reliable, quality checked effectively etc then you need to accept a higher price needs to be paid. That has not been the case for many items for an awful lot of years.

In terms of due diligence the govt didn't really have time, they were under huge pressure. The govt did not have time to arrange samples. Even if they did the product supplied does not always match the same standards as that provided in the sample. This is the problem with low quality, low price, high volume manufacturers from certain countries.

I appreciate the time pressure and agree waiting for samples was not an option, but surely in that case, you ask them who they have supplied previously, and make a few phone calls to check if they are kosher?

 

[Old Skier]

Fair chance it won't be just the over 65's that could be disappointed on Sunday. Who's for another 3 weeks but with a better shopping experience, if there is such a thing

 

[Doon frae Troon]

She did really well. Usually no time for the woman and her views but she politley told them to listen to what she was saying. The first question from the BBC was laughable as he literally asked a question that had been clearly stated and, therefore, answered, in her briefing.

It's been like that every day for the last 3 weeks Amanda.
Apologies for earlier using the word 'reporter' to describe an employee of that newspaper.
I do not think that there are any reporters left in the Scottish paper press nowadays.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I appreciate the time pressure and agree waiting for samples was not an option, but surely in that case, you ask them who they have supplied previously, and make a few phone calls to check if they are kosher?

They may well be genuine and just erratic, as you mentioned previously Turkey is renowned for something and it isn't quality. I suspect the govt were just racing through the book looking for manufacturers of ppe and went for it. After all, if they can produce 400k pieces in short time then they are not new to the game so they must have supplied some people successfully previously.

Maybe buying ppe at the peak of this was like ordering from a now infamous golf shop. You order in good faith, expect the correct items to arrive and work correctly but sometimes you are let down. ( earlier on in this one delivery marked as gowns on the boxes, as ordered, turned out to be masks. That was from a Chinese supplier)

 

[AmandaJR]

It's been like that every day for the last 3 weeks Amanda.
Apologies for earlier using the word 'reporter' to describe an employee of that newspaper.
I do not think that there are any reporters left in the Scottish paper press nowadays.

I can only assume they have their questions and ask regardless of what's been said in the briefing - journalists my backside!

Did she explain why the R rate is still high in Scotland? I didn't see it all.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I put the promise made at that daily brief about the PPE order on a par with the 100,000 tests promise. It was a “throwaway” in the brief that the Minister giving it didn’t even know it was achievable.

However, can you really blame the govt for the quality of the product?

caveat emptor...?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

At times your sense of fair play and logic really defies explanation!

Whose fault is it when you buy a product and the product is faulty?
If you ordered a set of clubs from an online retailer and then you wrote on here that things are looking up because you've got this lovely set of clubs coming etc etc( especially if some of your fellow members keep asking you when you are going to get these new clubs you've been on about), would you consider it right for us to call you out when you get your clubs and find they are no good? They look good and they should be good, but when you get them they don't do what you want to the extent that you can't use them.

Do you think it right to imply that you were careless in the purchase or you didn't really care whether they were any good or not.?

So here you go again, like Wolf said, turn it into a dig at B J and the Government.

A dig? - no - an exhortation - a plea. Only those who are looking for folks having a dig at the government can see what I said as such. But hey. It seems that for some all Government actions are beyond any critical consideration and when you make a critical comment or observation it's 'a dig'. Which is just plain daft - it's a question.

Some folks need to stop trying to defend and excuse the government for everything and at every turn - and need to just accept that some things that have been done or that have been said have been - let's just say - sub-optimal. And sub-optimal is fine and understandable in the circumstances - just stop trying to tell me nothing was done wrong, and that nothing should be questioned.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

A dig? - no - an exhortation - a plea. Only those who are looking for folks having a dig at the government can see what I said as such. But hey. It seems that for some all Government actions are beyond any critical consideration and when you make a critical comment or observation it's 'a dig'. Which is just plain daft - it's a question.

Some folks need to stop trying to defend and excuse the government for everything and at every turn - and need to just accept that some things that have been done or that have been said have been - let's just say - sub-optimal. And sub-optimal is fine and understandable in the circumstances - just stop trying to tell me nothing was done wrong, and that nothing should be questioned.

A "plea" to do things better, which is a direct implication that the government messed up. Whatever semantics you use, it was a dig.
And in this case, it was a silly dig, as I illustrated.
I have not said that nothing was done wrong, see post 689, the tests target was not handled right.
But my examination of the government 's performance is influenced by what a godawful problem this virus has given them ( and the World), and one I wouldn't like to be faced with, and in the belief that they want the best for the Country. Whereas, you appear to see a man you intensely dislike leading a political party you disapprove of, ready to pull the wool over our eyes.

I don't like the politics of SNP, the cheek they had to try to derail the HoC ( a body they wanted to leave and treat as a foreign country at the earliest opportunity ) but I am impressed by Nicola Sturgeon, and why?
Because she clearly isn't acting as an SNP member, a Party politician. She is impressively behaving as a leader of her "country", to whom it has fallen to get them out of this crisis.

 

[Hobbit]

caveat emptor...?

Do you think caveat emptor applies in this instance?

As long ago as 2003 Turkey implemented 70% of the EU's CE standards, including hospital PPE in hospitals. EDIT: April 2004. I don't think buyer beware is very fair.

As for a comment earlier in the thread on equipment coming out of China. The company I used to work for has factories in the UK, Germany, USA, Czech Republic and China. Equipment coming out of China sailed through its quality checks, unlike what was coming out of the USA and the Czech Republic. The anaesthetic machines coming out of the US wasn't just shoddy, they were downright lethal.

 

[Foxholer]

At times your sense of fair play and logic really defies explanation!

Whose fault is it when you buy a product and the product is faulty?
If you ordered a set of clubs from an online retailer and then you wrote on here that things are looking up because you've got this lovely set of clubs coming etc etc( especially if some of your fellow members keep asking you when you are going to get these new clubs you've been on about), would you consider it right for us to call you out when you get your clubs and find they are no good? They look good and they should be good, but when you get them they don't do what you want to the extent that you can't use them.

Do you think it right to imply that you were careless in the purchase or you didn't really care whether they were any good or not.?

So here you go again, like Wolf said, turn it into a dig at B J and the Government.

The product wasn't 'faulty'! It was just not (up) to the UK/NHS standards!

Would you be prepared to put our NHS heroes into battle against this virus with PPE not up to standard?

Mind you, it could all be a(nother) con and UK can produce/source 'proper' PPE in sufficient quantities that it doesn't need this supply!

WRT the golf clubs analogy...If they are not genuine, or genuine, but shoddily made, you have comeback. If they simply don't work (for you) then that's a case of 'caveat emptor'! Quality standards fall into the first category!

And yes, likely careless - or deceitful!

 

[Foxholer]

A "plea" to do things better, which is a direct implication that the government messed up. Whatever semantics you use, it was a dig.
And in this case, it was a silly dig, as I illustrated.
...

I don't like the politics of SNP, the cheek they had to try to derail the HoC ( a body they wanted to leave and treat as a foreign country at the earliest opportunity ) but I am impressed by Nicola Sturgeon, and why?
Because she clearly isn't acting as an SNP member, a Party politician. She is impressively behaving as a leader of her "country", to whom it has fallen to get them out of this crisis.

You aeem, to me, to be rather blinded by your own prejudices!
Your illustration was naff!

From what I've seen, Sturgeon is doing a very good job, but doesn't have anywhere near the same responsibilities as the likes of BoJo, so has a considerable advantage in that regard. Also has the benefit of being able to announce initiatives much earlier RofTK for some reason - which also shows her in a better light than she probably deserves.

As for the bold bit....no-one is 'getting out of this crisis' (alive)! Getting through it (alive and healthy) is the goal!

 

[Mudball]

I know a few forumers were not a fan of Mark Carney at the BoE. The new gentleman is getting a baptism by fire .. fairly gloomy/realistic predictions. A 14% shrink in the economy this year. I think he is optimistic to think that the economy will be back by next summer.

Which also brings the spectre of Brexit and the impact that we will have. Reading the MPC news today, there is a bit of me that thinks that we should get Brexit done this year.. we are up the creek without a paddle - as well rip the plaster in one go. Then we can also write off 2021 rather than live in a false hope.

If we don’t get Brexit done, then we should delay by a few years rather than a 6 month extension (which the Tories won’t let happen)

We might as well make a cocktail of man made and natural causes into one molotov and let it go under the economy.

(Flame suit on)

 

[Swinglowandslow]

You aeem, to me, to be rather blinded by your own prejudices!
Your illustration was naff!

From what I've seen, Sturgeon is doing a very good job, but doesn't have anywhere near the same responsibilities as the likes of BoJo, so has a considerable advantage in that regard. Also has the benefit of being able to announce initiatives much earlier RofTK for some reason - which also shows her in a better light than she probably deserves.

As for the bold bit....no-one is 'getting out of this crisis' (alive)! Getting through it (alive and healthy) is the goal!

I'm a bit non plussed by your post. I didn't make any comment about who has the harder job, Bojo or Sturgeon . I was defending B J and government insofar as they have a difficult job with this crisis and it isn't being dealt with on Party lines but in an effort to assist the Country , and as a reinforcement of that, I opined that Sturgeon is similarly dealing with Scotland. I.e Not in a "Party" way.
Both handling it pretty well. But I read your post as if you think I am praising Sturgeon and comparing BJ unfavourably to her?

And my illustration? Do you mean where I am making the point that someone ordering goods in good faith ( alright, I said golf clubs as an example cos this is a golf forum, )but receives duff gear instead ,is the one who is at fault?
The fault lies with the supplier doesn't it. . ?

Getting out of the crisis? I've had to think hard here. I meant getting out as in "getting out the other side" as in as good a shape as possible. I can only think you may have thought I meant "getting out of" as meaning "evade"?
Perhaps I should have used your preposition "through" to be more accurate

As I say, apart from the last para, I don't see what exactly of my post it is that you disagree with?

 

[Backache]

Ethan, Have doctors been told that once a person has Covid 19, they are pretty much immune?
Sorry for going off track, I just know your a doctor and in the know..
It might help as I’m looking to get a new job, Thanks.

My understanding is that there is a presumption that people are immune following infection but no certainty about how long that immunity may last for.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

The product wasn't 'faulty'! It was just not (up) to the UK/NHS standards!

Would you be prepared to put our NHS heroes into battle against this virus with PPE not up to standard?

Mind you, it could all be a(nother) con and UK can produce/source 'proper' PPE in sufficient quantities that it doesn't need this supply!

WRT the golf clubs analogy...If they are not genuine, or genuine, but shoddily made, you have comeback. If they simply don't work (for you) then that's a case of 'caveat emptor'! Quality standards fall into the first category!

And yes, likely careless - or deceitful!

Who has said it was merely not up to our standards? Not faulty, just not up to our standard? If it was marketed as PPE, and did not protect, then it was faulty?.Are you suggesting that it was ordered knowing that it was of a particular standard, not amounting to PPE, but we ordered it nevertheless?
Or is it more likely that it was described ( maybe even sampled ) as being of our standard, and ordered as such - but what turned up was not able to protect our personnel as required,?
If so -that makes it faulty.

Your second paragraph is frankly a puzzle. Why the need for such a comment? Where have I advocated or suggested or agreed that it would be ok for NHS staff to be using any PPE not up to standard.?

Your comment re my golf club analogy suggests that the government buyer of this PPE knew of its ( inadequate) standard when ordered. .? Or, as you put it, "simply don't work for you"
I cannot conceive in this situation that anyone would do that , or do you think otherwise?

 

[Kellfire]

Ethan, Have doctors been told that once a person has Covid 19, they are pretty much immune?
Sorry for going off track, I just know your a doctor and in the know..
It might help as I’m looking to get a new job, Thanks.

No. It’s weird that you think doctors have some kind of insider club but the answer to your question is no.