Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Deleted member 18588]

It is open to interpretation but what I took it to mean is that the majority of hospitalisations have been over 65's and those with underlying health conditions. If they were to create a policy around that they couldn't cherry pick some over 65's and not others because the evidence so far doesn't seem to indicate that. It's a fact that the immune system is reduced in older people generally making them more susceptible healthy or not.

I would be interested if you could show me the part of the report from which you draw your conclusion as I cannot see any reference to hospitalisations.

And further within the report is a summary of a further piece of research that suggests that the risk of death is only very marginally greater than normal for all ages.

To repeat: more people over 65 die from this disease just as more of their age group die from any condition.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I likewise would be somewhat uneasy - but though it's not possible I think I'd rather have Starmer at the helm today...(is that a political soundbite? )

Well Starmer does have the advantage of not having to do anything.

I imagine we could all look good on that basis.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I would be interested if you could show me the part of the report from which you draw your conclusion as I cannot see any reference to hospitalisations.

And further within the report is a summary of a further piece of research that suggests that the risk of death is only very marginally greater than normal for all ages.

To repeat: more people over 65 die from this disease just as more of their age group die from any condition.

It's the cumulative effect of this that the NHS can't cope with I would have thought.
This is the part of the report I drew my conclusion from. It all depends on your definition of what the vulnerable group is.
"If it wasn't for the fact that it presents such a high risk of severe disease in vulnerable groups, we would never have taken the steps we have and closed down the country.
"If we can shield the vulnerable really well, there is no reason why we cannot lift many of the restrictions in place for others.
"The lockdown has come at a huge economic, social and health cost."

 

[Deleted member 18588]

It's the cumulative effect of this that the NHS can't cope with I would have thought.
This is the part of the report I drew my conclusion from. It all depends on your definition of what the vulnerable group is.
"If it wasn't for the fact that it presents such a high risk of severe disease in vulnerable groups, we would never have taken the steps we have and closed down the country.
"If we can shield the vulnerable really well, there is no reason why we cannot lift many of the restrictions in place for others.
"The lockdown has come at a huge economic, social and health cost."

But none of that states that the over 65's are any more likely to contract the disease than any other age group.

Yes more of them die from it but more of them die from all illnesses.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

But none of that states that the over 65's are any more likely to contract the disease than any other age group.

Yes more of them die from it but more of them die from all illnesses.

If the data shows that 80%+ of people admitted to hospital were over 65 or in a vulnerable category would it make sense to produce different rules for them over other categories of the population?

 

[pendodave]

Maybe it's time to lay out the cold hard facts of who gets it and what happens to them and then let people decide how they want to live their lives for the rest of the year?
We do it for all sorts of other lethal threats, and no-one seems to have an issue with it.
Noting of course that the state should ensure that those who have no choice in the matter are protected much more effectively than they seem to be at present.
Just a thought. Don't hate me for it.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

If the data shows that 80%+ of people admitted to hospital were over 65 or in a vulnerable category would it make sense to produce different rules for them over other categories of the population?

Well the data shows the vast majority of cases occur in the large urban areas so perhaps we should maintain lockdown for those and 10 miles around.

 

[pendodave]

I might be wrong, but I get the feeling that metalmickey was 65 last week...

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Well the data shows the vast majority of cases occur in the large urban areas so perhaps we should maintain lockdown for those and 10 miles around.

If it's a certain category whatever it may be then why not?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

And see this morning the PPE from Turkey. Expectations were built up around it (even though it was only three days - but whatever) - then it was delayed - then only some came - now according to the Daily Telegraph all of it has been deemed to be unfit for purpose. The expectations around this consignment were set by the government - and it filled the headlines for days...and we ended up with nothing of it.

Come on Johnson's guys and gals - just stop doing this. This is not normal times - political soundbites playing to your support have absolutely no place in the present circumstances - because when a soundbite is shown to be of little substance it just undermines you. Pleeeze...

At times your sense of fair play and logic really defies explanation!

Whose fault is it when you buy a product and the product is faulty?
If you ordered a set of clubs from an online retailer and then you wrote on here that things are looking up because you've got this lovely set of clubs coming etc etc( especially if some of your fellow members keep asking you when you are going to get these new clubs you've been on about), would you consider it right for us to call you out when you get your clubs and find they are no good? They look good and they should be good, but when you get them they don't do what you want to the extent that you can't use them.

Do you think it right to imply that you were careless in the purchase or you didn't really care whether they were any good or not.?

So here you go again, like Wolf said, turn it into a dig at B J and the Government.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I might be wrong, but I get the feeling that metalmickey was 65 last week...

I passed 65 a few years ago.

Just don't care for lazy generalisation.

 

[rudebhoy]

At times your sense of fair play and logic really defies explanation!

Whose fault is it when you buy a product and the product is faulty?
If you ordered a set of clubs from an online retailer and then you wrote on here that things are looking up because you've got this lovely set of clubs coming etc etc( especially if some of your fellow members keep asking you when you are going to get these new clubs you've been on about), would you consider it right for us to call you out when you get your clubs and find they are no good? They look good and they should be good, but when you get them they don't do what you want to the extent that you can't use them.

Do you think it right to imply that you were careless in the purchase or you didn't really care whether they were any good or not.?

So here you go again, like Wolf said, turn it into a dig at B J and the Government.

At times your sense of fair play and logic really defies explanation!

Whose fault is it when you buy a product and the product is faulty?
If you ordered a set of clubs from an online retailer and then you wrote on here that things are looking up because you've got this lovely set of clubs coming etc etc( especially if some of your fellow members keep asking you when you are going to get these new clubs you've been on about), would you consider it right for us to call you out when you get your clubs and find they are no good? They look good and they should be good, but when you get them they don't do what you want to the extent that you can't use them.

Do you think it right to imply that you were careless in the purchase or you didn't really care whether they were any good or not.?

So here you go again, like Wolf said, turn it into a dig at B J and the Government.

Would you buy a set of golf clubs from a Turkish website?

As a country, Turkey is well known for fake substandard goods.

It is all rather unfortunate, but you would think the buyer would have done some due diligence on the supplier and their standards.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I passed 65 a few years ago.

Just don't care for lazy generalisation.

Where's the lazy generalisation? This will be driven by the numbers

 

[Deleted member 18588]

And today the ONS have stated that those from BAME groups have a much increased mortality rate from this disease.

Are they to be excluded from any easing of lockdown on the grounds of ethnicity?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Where's the lazy generalisation? This will be driven by the numbers

Maybe because you quoted an article as support of your claim yet the contents of said article did not provide that.

 

[IanM]

And today the ONS have stated that those from BAME groups have a much increased mortality rate from this disease.

Are they to be excluded from any easing of lockdown on the grounds of ethnicity?

I'd suggest that this would also mirror the urban/rural breakdown.... and the ethnicity split is just a bit of failed politicking! (for whatever purpose)

Keep the Townies locked up!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I'd suggest that this would also mirror the urban/rural breakdown.... and the ethnicity split is just a bit of failed politicking! (for whatever purpose)

Keep the Townies locked up!

I don't think the ONS are in the habit of politicking.

My point is that, as in so many instances, statistics can be used or distorted to support any number of arguments.

However, some forms of discrimination, such as ageism, are accepted by many who, quite rightly, would be outraged by others such as racism or sexism.

 

[ColchesterFC]

The thing is, there's more than one way of looking at the science. This article on the BBC makes a perfectly legitimate case for changing our current strategy. Apologies that there's not enough political content, but by the time I look again there probably will be...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52543692

Isn't that article promoting herd immunity? The government got slaughtered (rightly IMO) for suggesting that early in the epidemic.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

OOps bound to happen Thar she blows....….Sun reporter getting handed his bottom on a plate by Nicola this afternoon.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Would you buy a set of golf clubs from a Turkish website?

As a country, Turkey is well known for fake substandard goods.

It is all rather unfortunate, but you would think the buyer would have done some due diligence on the supplier and their standards.

To be fair, the alternative is largely China. A country well known for ...........................

Due to the desire for lower costs, cheap everything, the main sources for these items are low cost, low everything countries. The payback for that is every so often you get bitten. If you want products that are well manufactured, reliable, quality checked effectively etc then you need to accept a higher price needs to be paid. That has not been the case for many items for an awful lot of years.

In terms of due diligence the govt didn't really have time, they were under huge pressure. The govt did not have time to arrange samples. Even if they did the product supplied does not always match the same standards as that provided in the sample. This is the problem with low quality, low price, high volume manufacturers from certain countries.