Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Doon frae Troon]

The one area of coming out of lockdown that needs addressing pronto is the use of public toilets.
I gather they are all closed and the usual other outlets such as cafe's shops and pubs are either closed or the ones who are not closed are refusing public use.
Not been out and about since 13th March so how do motorway service stations etc operate and do you feel safe using them.
I know Fish highlighted this problem for delivery drivers.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

The one area of coming out of lockdown that needs addressing pronto is the use of public toilets.
I gather they are all closed and the usual other outlets such as cafe's shops and pubs are either closed or the ones who are not closed are refusing public use.
Not been out and about since 13th March so how do motorway service stations etc operate and do you feel safe using them.
I know Fish highlighted this problem for delivery drivers.

Seriously take out with you a bottle or bucket or camping toilet if you have a van, easy as that.

Not what I would ever dream of doing before, but needs must.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The one area of coming out of lockdown that needs addressing pronto is the use of public toilets.
I gather they are all closed and the usual other outlets such as cafe's shops and pubs are either closed or the ones who are not closed are refusing public use.
Not been out and about since 13th March so how do motorway service stations etc operate and do you feel safe using them.
I know Fish highlighted this problem for delivery drivers.

Public toilets in Chesham town centre are open, at least they were on Friday ?

 

[Slab]

The one area of coming out of lockdown that needs addressing pronto is the use of public toilets.
I gather they are all closed and the usual other outlets such as cafe's shops and pubs are either closed or the ones who are not closed are refusing public use.
Not been out and about since 13th March so how do motorway service stations etc operate and do you feel safe using them.
I know Fish highlighted this problem for delivery drivers.

Ok, now you really are just taking the piss

 

[rudebhoy]

Would you like to clearly nail your colours to the mast and tell us which strategy you want to see.
The lockdown to continue as it is. Or,
An easing of the lockdown, which you are inferring is a gamble, I.e. Recklessness by the government.
It is something of a gamble, but that is because of the nature of the virus and not knowing exactly how the populace will behave.

We have only heard speculation as to the form of easing. Whenever it comes it will come with caveats. I suspect there won't be a burning of bridges,
And most importantly, there will be a plea for the behaviour of people to stick within the easement guidelines.
When the last thing doesn't happen, I will blame the selfish idiots who refuse to think of others.
Who will you blame , I wonder?

I think the lockdown should continue as is for the next 3 weeks. If hospital deaths and new cases continue to fall at the current rate, then in 3 weeks time, I'd look at relaxing things a bit.

I recognise that comes at a financial cost, but for me, public health and avoiding a 2nd wave are more important.

I agree there will be a minority of people who will ignore the guidelines/rules, putting other people's health at risk. I will condemn them, but I'd also say that we have been far too soft in our implementation of the lockdown, and no doubt will continue to be with the new rules, so these idiots know they can get away with it. Just asking nicely doesn't work with a minority of idiots. We should be hammering them with fines or jail.

In Greece, the rules are you need to send a text to a central agency and get permission when you want to go out. If you ignore that, you get a hefty fine. The result of that is that, despite a health service which is financially crippled, they have had a grand total of 147 deaths, with none reported yesterday, and are now easing their lockdown.

There you go - colours nailed to the mast.

 

[Slab]

I think the lockdown should continue as is for the next 3 weeks. If hospital deaths and new cases continue to fall at the current rate, then in 3 weeks time, I'd look at relaxing things a bit.

I recognise that comes at a financial cost, but for me, public health and avoiding a 2nd wave are more important.

I agree there will be a minority of people who will ignore the guidelines/rules, putting other people's health at risk. I will condemn them, but I'd also say that we have been far too soft in our implementation of the lockdown, and no doubt will continue to be with the new rules, so these idiots know they can get away with it. Just asking nicely doesn't work with a minority of idiots. We should be hammering them with fines or jail.

In Greece, the rules are you need to send a text to a central agency and get permission when you want to go out. If you ignore that, you get a hefty fine. The result of that is that, despite a health service which is financially crippled, they have had a grand total of 147 deaths, with none reported yesterday, and are now easing their lockdown.

There you go - colours nailed to the mast.

I agree. I think the UK have chosen a fairly lite version of a lock-down (as lock-downs go) but many seem want it to end after the same duration as the more stringent lock-downs round the world
My logic (maybe flawed) says if you use a 'lock-down lite' it will need to go on for longer than a 'proper' lock-down in order to have the same effect & achieve the same goals

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yet again people display their ignorance by reading a BBC report and suggesting that the conclusion is something that is not actually contained in that report.

Yes the majority of deaths have been amongst those over 65, but even in more normal times the majority are in that age group .

The report from the University of Edinburgh referred to the "most vulnerable " and, to me at least, seemed pretty clear in meaning those in care and the 1.5 million (of all ages) on the Govt's "at risk " list due to underlying health conditions.

Not a blanket recommendation for all over 65

 

[rudebhoy]

I agree. I think the UK have chosen a fairly lite version of a lock-down (as lock-downs go) but many seem want it to end after the same duration as the more stringent lock-downs round the world
My logic (maybe flawed) says if you use a 'lock-down lite' it will need to go on for longer than a 'proper' lock-down in order to have the same effect & achieve the same goals

Agreed. It reminds me of numerous episodes of the Walking Dead where everyone is safe until some idiot decides to take an unnecessary risk, he gets bitten, and before you know it, the zombies have overrun the compound!

 

[Hacker Khan]

I agree. I think the UK have chosen a fairly lite version of a lock-down (as lock-downs go) but many seem want it to end after the same duration as the more stringent lock-downs round the world
My logic (maybe flawed) says if you use a 'lock-down lite' it will need to go on for longer than a 'proper' lock-down in order to have the same effect & achieve the same goals

One could argue we have got stuck in the middle a bit. We have a lockdown lite which has resulted in the 2nd worst death rate in the world* but our economy is also screwed. And one could argue that if we are going to screw the economy at least try and ensure the deaths are not as bad as they seem *


* feel free to ignore this fact/opinion/left wing propaganda if you want to.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I think the lockdown should continue as is for the next 3 weeks. If hospital deaths and new cases continue to fall at the current rate, then in 3 weeks time, I'd look at relaxing things a bit.

I recognise that comes at a financial cost, but for me, public health and avoiding a 2nd wave are more important.

I agree there will be a minority of people who will ignore the guidelines/rules, putting other people's health at risk. I will condemn them, but I'd also say that we have been far too soft in our implementation of the lockdown, and no doubt will continue to be with the new rules, so these idiots know they can get away with it. Just asking nicely doesn't work with a minority of idiots. We should be hammering them with fines or jail.

In Greece, the rules are you need to send a text to a central agency and get permission when you want to go out. If you ignore that, you get a hefty fine. The result of that is that, despite a health service which is financially crippled, they have had a grand total of 147 deaths, with none reported yesterday, and are now easing their lockdown.

There you go - colours nailed to the mast.

Yes, seen clearly?

But I wouldn't put all the good results of Greece down to their lockdown measures.
Compare.

Greece population 11 million, Per sq. mile=81

London population 10 million. Per sq mile in 2008 =12,877

U.K. Population. 60 million. Per sq kilo 274


There's the reason for their success as much as anything, and New Zealand and Sweden etc.

Our population, now less disciplined than it was, is what is hampering our efforts, not government chicanery.

BTW, I agree entirely with your views re dealing with the idiots who are selfish.

 

[Slab]

One could argue we have got stuck in the middle a bit. We have a lockdown lite which has resulted in the 2nd worst death rate in the world* but our economy is also screwed. And one could argue that if we are going to screw the economy at least try and ensure the deaths are not as bad as they seem *


* feel free to ignore this fact/opinion/left wing propaganda if you want to.

Yeah I think there was a period of a few days where the UK seemed to prefer the 'herd' option and was heading that way... and then swung into lock-down instead. After the herd was touted out loud & in the public domain it would have been very difficult for the public to accept a serious lock-down as an alternative and they've kind of ended up with the lite instead

It'll likely still work I hope, but I don't see how it can work in as short a time frame as 6-7 weeks

 

[AmandaJR]

I'm just going by the official figures from each country that is telling me we have the 2nd worst death toll now after the US and we have missed the testing target for the 4th day now. And whilst I know that the numbers are not all calculated the same, I can't help thinking up to yet the government are not covering themselves in glory.

I'm sure Boris will have some excuses ready as he seems that type of person, and I am sure some will lap those up as a get out of jail free for him and the government. But in a global pandemic where results are measured quite harshly in deaths, if it was a league table we currently seem to be staring relegation in the face.

We probably have opposing political views but this post sums up how I'm feeling at the moment. I'm worried where we're at and where we're going and my faith is fading fast. Still 600+ deaths yesterday and it just seems too many 6 weeks into lockdown. How are those numbers still up there?

The testing issue bothers me too. 120,000 on Hancock's version of D Day and way below that every day since. That smacks of fudging the numbers to meet a promise and I don't like it.

Having said that the thought of Corbyn being at the helm would make me feel even more uneasy.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Yet again people display their ignorance by reading a BBC report and suggesting that the conclusion is something that is not actually contained in that report.

Yes the majority of deaths have been amongst those over 65, but even in more normal times the majority are in that age group .

The report from the University of Edinburgh referred to the "most vulnerable " and, to me at least, seemed pretty clear in meaning those in care and the 1.5 million (of all ages) on the Govt's "at risk " list due to underlying health conditions.

Not a blanket recommendation for all over 65

It is open to interpretation but what I took it to mean is that the majority of hospitalisations have been over 65's and those with underlying health conditions. If they were to create a policy around that they couldn't cherry pick some over 65's and not others because the evidence so far doesn't seem to indicate that. It's a fact that the immune system is reduced in older people generally making them more susceptible healthy or not.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

How much better is the House of Commons without the childish Yaaa Boohoo oiks in the stands.
It really highlights the true quality of the politicians delivering their uninterrupted speeches.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Exceed expectations, and everyone is happy. Fail to meet them and its a busted flush.

And see this morning the PPE from Turkey. Expectations were built up around it (even though it was only three days - but whatever) - then it was delayed - then only some came - now according to the Daily Telegraph all of it has been deemed to be unfit for purpose. The expectations around this consignment were set by the government - and it filled the headlines for days...and we ended up with nothing of it.

Come on Johnson's guys and gals - just stop doing this. This is not normal times - political soundbites playing to your support have absolutely no place in the present circumstances - because when a soundbite is shown to be of little substance it just undermines you. Pleeeze...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We probably have opposing political views but this post sums up how I'm feeling at the moment. I'm worried where we're at and where we're going and my faith is fading fast. Still 600+ deaths yesterday and it just seems too many 6 weeks into lockdown. How are those numbers still up there?

The testing issue bothers me too. 120,000 on Hancock's version of D Day and way below that every day since. That smacks of fudging the numbers to meet a promise and I don't like it.

Having said that the thought of Corbyn being at the helm would make me feel even more uneasy.

I likewise would be somewhat uneasy - but though it's not possible I think I'd rather have Starmer at the helm today...(is that a political soundbite? )

 

[Wolf]

And see this morning the PPE from Turkey. Expectations were built up around it (even though it was only three days - but whatever) - then it was delayed - then only some came - now according to the Daily Telegraph all of it has been deemed to be unfit for purpose. The expectations around this consignment were set by the government - and it filled the headlines for days...and we ended up with nothing of it.

Come on Johnson's guys and gals - just stop doing this. This is not normal times - political soundbites playing to your support have absolutely no place in the present circumstances - because when a soundbite is shown to be of little substance it just undermines you. Pleeeze...

I don't disagree with you on this at all, but its a difficult one to stop because if they don't say anything people will ask what are they actually doing about it, so they do say something and people are saying they shouldn't have said anything. Very much a no win situation for any government whether that be Tory, Labour or anyone. They have to be seen to say and do things but then complained about when they do just that.

All we can hope is they get more right than they do wrong and find a way to help the nation.

 

[Ethan]

how?)

What I am missing is where the 18,000 'contact-tracers' fit into the solution. What I'm hearing this morning is all about the app? Or is this just about whether the app works and if proven the full solution will involve contact-tracers doing follow-up (how will they do that?) to check that all who will have been pinged by the app got the ping, and have acted accordingly - self-isolate then get tested?

As I understand it, the process is that close contacts of test-positive cases are identified and told to self-isolate. Then if the contacts develop symptoms, they can come forward for testing, I suppose, but they are not tested as a matter of routine. To me, this misses a hugely important aspect of contact tracing. Aggressive contact tracing would test those close contacts of the test-positive case, and if any of them tested positive, their close contacts and so on until the cycle stops. It is the only way to break the spread of infection. It also provides good epidemiological data dn avoids unnecessary self-isolation which could happen more than once.

 

[Hobbit]

And see this morning the PPE from Turkey. Expectations were built up around it (even though it was only three days - but whatever) - then it was delayed - then only some came - now according to the Daily Telegraph all of it has been deemed to be unfit for purpose. The expectations around this consignment were set by the government - and it filled the headlines for days...and we ended up with nothing of it.

Come on Johnson's guys and gals - just stop doing this. This is not normal times - political soundbites playing to your support have absolutely no place in the present circumstances - because when a soundbite is shown to be of little substance it just undermines you. Pleeeze...

I put the promise made at that daily brief about the PPE order on a par with the 100,000 tests promise. It was a “throwaway” in the brief that the Minister giving it didn’t even know it was achievable.

However, can you really blame the govt for the quality of the product?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

As I understand it, the process is that close contacts of test-positive cases are identified and told to self-isolate. Then if the contacts develop symptoms, they can come forward for testing, I suppose, but they are not tested as a matter of routine. To me, this misses a hugely important aspect of contact tracing. Aggressive contact tracing would test those close contacts of the test-positive case, and if any of them tested positive, their close contacts and so on until the cycle stops. It is the only way to break the spread of infection. It also provides good epidemiological data dn avoids unnecessary self-isolation which could happen more than once.

Is there any evidence from countries that have had aggressive contact tracing policies how many tests per day we'd require for that?