Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Excoriating critique of Johnson, Cummings and crew by Max Hastings in The Times today. Gove and Sunak aside - a bunch of lackeys only in post as they swore fealty to Johnson at the insistence of Cummings who is aiming for Presidential-style authority for Johnson - with Johnson alone raising policy initiatives all formulated by Cummings.

 

[Old Skier]

Excoriating critique of Johnson, Cummings and crew by Max Hastings in The Times today. Gove and Sunak aside - a bunch of lackeys only in post as they swore fealty to Johnson at the insistence of Cummings who is aiming for Presidential-style authority for Johnson - with Johnson alone raising policy initiatives all formulated by Cummings.

In Hastings opinion. Not necessarily fact.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

In Hastings opinion. Not necessarily fact.

Surely a journalist wouldn't spin anything to get a story out

 

[Old Skier]

Surely a journalist wouldn't spin anything to get a story out

Journalist used to report on facts, now they are as bad as politicians, Spout their personal views in the hole of influencing the gullible.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Journalist used to report on facts, now they are as bad as politicians, Spout their personal views in the hole of influencing the gullible.

Totally agree, especially those writing feature columns. Unfair perhaps to tar them all with the same brush but it is certainly a trait amongst the majority

 

[rulefan]

Journalist used to report on facts, now they are as bad as politicians, Spout their personal views in the hole of influencing the gullible.

Hoe would you classify Huw Edwards?

I've noticed that when he makes an announcement about a government action or proposal, he always seems to follow it with 'but .....'

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Totally agree, especially those writing feature columns. Unfair perhaps to tar them all with the same brush but it is certainly a trait amongst the majority

But that is the purpose of feature or comment pieces.

They are not intended to be impartial news reports.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Hoe would you classify Huw Edwards?

I've noticed that when he makes an announcement about a government action or proposal, he always seems to follow it with 'but .....'

Huw Edwards is not a Hoe ??

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so a conservative commentator suggests that the current bunch are pretty useless - that they are not there on and real merit other than they swore fealty Johnson - a condition most likely demanded and therefore imposed by Cummings; that the cabinet are no more than stooges enacting Johnson policy and that that comes from Cummings; and that there are many very capable MPs and ex-ministers that could fill the positions - if only Johnson had the cojones to dump the current bunch.

But that is all rubbish according to the usual suspects...I’d laugh if it were to so depressing a conclusion.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

And so a conservative commentator suggests that the current bunch are pretty useless - that they are not there on and real merit other than they swore fealty Johnson - a condition most likely demanded and therefore imposed by Cummings; that the cabinet are no more than stooges enacting Johnson policy and that that comes from Cummings; and that there are many very capable MPs and ex-ministers that could fill the positions - if only Johnson had the cojones to dump the current bunch.

But that is all rubbish according to the usual suspects...I’d laugh if it were to so depressing a conclusion.

Hastings critique could have been directed at any front bench on either side of the House in the past 25 years.

The growth of personality politics means that no party leader wants his or her front benchers to be like the political giants of the past as that could risk the leadership being overshadowed.

The problem is that Hastings continues to live in the past and does not appear to recognise this change in politics.

Not that I am suggesting that it has been a change for the better. IMO we benefited when there were strong minds alongside the pary leaders.

 

[Jamesbrown]

There's a reason why teacher's aren't permitted anywhere near a live exam anymore...they have a vested interest.

Didn’t know that, maybe they should stay away from coursework as well.
I was given three subjects of coursework to copy from as I just didn’t do mine nor did I attend school barely the last two years.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Hastings critique could have been directed at any front bench on either side of the House in the past 25 years.

The growth of personality politics means that no party leader wants his or her front benchers to be like the political giants of the past as that could risk the leadership being overshadowed.

The problem is that Hastings continues to live in the past and does not appear to recognise this change in politics.

Not that I am suggesting that it has been a change for the better. IMO we benefited when there were strong minds alongside the pary leaders.

I agree with your comments ref Hastings and your last paragraph, but isn’t it time we stopped using the excuse of “the last 25 years” or “it could be any party” or “it’s always been that way” etc?

Maybe it’s time to say enough is enough and we should consign the past to history and change the future rather than accepting it.

Calling out issues in the Government doesn’t make a person anti-tory, no more than calling out issues in the Opposition anti-Labour.

All parties have problems and they should be faced rather than accepted.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I agree with your comments ref Hastings and your last paragraph, but isn’t it time we stopped using the excuse of “the last 25 years” or “it could be any party” or “it’s always been that way” etc?

Maybe it’s time to say enough is enough and we should consign the past to history and change the future rather than accepting it.

Calling out issues in the Government doesn’t make a person anti-tory, no more than calling out issues in the Opposition anti-Labour.

All parties have problems and they should be faced rather than accepted.

I'm sorry but I thought my last paragraph made it clear what my view is on this unfortunate development.

I certainly wasn't aware of offering recent history as an excuse, more a case of placing in context.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'm sorry but I thought my last paragraph made it clear what my view is on this unfortunate development.

I certainly wasn't aware of offering recent history as an excuse, more a case of placing in context.

That’s why I said “we” when mentioning excuses.
The whole article is about how johnson and cummings are trying to change the “playbook” and calls this Government/Cabinet out as “the least impressive of the last century”

Your opening paragraph in relation to the article misses the point imo.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

That’s why I said “we” when mentioning excuses.
The whole article is about how johnson and cummings are trying to change the “playbook” and calls this Government/Cabinet out as “the least impressive of the last century”

Your opening paragraph in relation to the article misses the point imo.

But my point was that it is not a recent development and I cannot remember when there was last an impressive Government.

When I first voted there were some truly significant politicians around. Just look at the Wilson era when he had the likes of Brown, Callaghan, Healey, et al.

But then it evolved into personality politics. Thatcher or Foot, Blair or Major, Johnson or Corbyn.

The result has been that policies are all completely dictated from the party leaders and their own advisers and strong politicians are not needed.

My point about Hastings' article is that I completely agree about the overall quality of the current Cabinet but this isn't going to change until the attitude of the electorate itself changes.

And whether this lot is any worse than some who have gone before is irrelevant, few if any have been impressive.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

But my point was that it is not a recent development and I cannot remember when there was last an impressive Government.

When I first voted there were some truly significant politicians around. Just look at the Wilson era when he had the likes of Brown, Callaghan, Healey, et al.

But then it evolved into personality politics. Thatcher or Foot, Blair or Major, Johnson or Corbyn.

The result has been that policies are all completely dictated from the party leaders and their own advisers and strong politicians are not needed.

My point about Hastings' article is that I completely agree about the overall quality of the current Cabinet but this isn't going to change until the attitude of the electorate itself changes.

And whether this lot is any worse than some who have gone before is irrelevant, few if any have been impressive.

No worries mate, I read the article as more about the style of Government and the agenda of johnson and cummings and what they are trying to do, hence surrounding themselves with a weak Cabinet, more about the motives of the leadership not giving the strong backbenchers a chance/choice.

As he says in the article if any previous Governments had attempted to behave the way thay are, the parties themselves would of stopped it or been called out publicly.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

No worries mate, I read the article as more about the style of Government and the agenda of johnson and cummings and what they are trying to do, hence surrounding themselves with a weak Cabinet, more about the motives of the leadership not giving the strong backbenchers a chance/choice.

As he says in the article if any previous Governments had attempted to behave the way thay are, the parties themselves would of stopped it or been called out publicly.

But that's it. I would like to think that it might have been different under previous Governments.

I'm just not certain that it would have been.

For example Heseltine and to a lesser extent Howe stood up to Thatcher but plenty of others didn't.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Having had a weeks notice of what happened with the Scottish exam results I can't believe that the English system did not anticipate a similar outcome

 

[Ethan]

But the argument, even though it is a whatabouttery and a gaslighting combination, that previous Govts were essentially no different is irrelevant, even if it cannot be proven to be false. Each Govt has to deal with the challenges it faces, whether those challenges occur as a result of the actions of previous Govts of the same or different flavour or force majeure, and be accountable for them. If we are now at the stage where we expect nothing but incompetence and corruption from any of them, then society is truly doomed.

I have no doubt that Labour would have made mistakes if it was handling Covid, but I doubt there would be quite the same amount of throwing loads of money at private sector companies singularly unqualified to do the job asked of them, and there would have been more real support, being hand clapping, for the NHS and public health.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

But the argument, even though it is a whatabouttery and a gaslighting combination, that previous Govts were essentially no different is irrelevant, even if it cannot be proven to be false. Each Govt has to deal with the challenges it faces, whether those challenges occur as a result of the actions of previous Govts of the same or different flavour or force majeure, and be accountable for them. If we are now at the stage where we expect nothing but incompetence and corruption from any of them, then society is truly doomed.

I have no doubt that Labour would have made mistakes if it was handling Covid, but I doubt there would be quite the same amount of throwing loads of money at private sector companies singularly unqualified to do the job asked of them, and there would have been more real support, being hand clapping, for the NHS and public health.

And labour would have "bankrupted" the country in a way only the Tory's can save.... By doing the same amount of debt but Tory's ofc is necessary and labour is unstable....