Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Ethan]

If there was a political slant to the whole exercise then surely the teachers' gradings would stand thereby enabling the Government to claim a success in their education policies.

I'm afraid that this is a situation from which no one is going to emerge unscathed.

Teachers will be accused of misleading pupils by inflating grades.

Pupils may find their future plans thrown into disarray.

Government will be slammed whichever method had been used in the absence of exams.

Heavy is the head, as Stormzy would say.

I agree it is a bad break for the Govt but a worse one for some pupils. There does appear to be some systematic issues within this algorithm, though. One is that more popular subjects are more likely to be adjusted because of the larger sample size and greater quantity of data available, whereas less popular niche subjects are less likely for the opposite reason. The latter category are more likely to be taken in private schools. And pupils who were at schools with few previous pupils going on to high grade subjects are penalised more because of the school's lack of track record. Again, private schools benefit.

There are only a finite number of places for a lot of subjects so simply saying that everybody can appeal or have the best of the various measures risks overfilling some courses, doesn't it? I assume that offers are made based on data from previous years and a degree of overselling, like the airlines, is needed. If the pass rate has sharply risen because there are additional ways to meet the grade, how can everyone's offer be honoured?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

With people losing uni places surely the unis and jobs can be like hmm it's a national scandle so no loss of place

Seems like even though the gov failed everyone is willing to accept it and just blame the gov rather than step up and say right your predicted grades were AAA so we will offer you a place for exceptional circumstances which also is affecting everyone

But where have the Government failed?

Throughout all this I have not seen too many constructive suggestions of alternative methods of dealing with an unprecedented situation.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

But where have the Government failed?

Throughout all this I have not seen too many constructive suggestions of alternative methods of dealing with an unprecedented situation.

This sums up a lot of the situation well.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Heavy is the head, as Stormzy would say.

I agree it is a bad break for the Govt but a worse one for some pupils. There does appear to be some systematic issues within this algorithm, though. One is that more popular subjects are more likely to be adjusted because of the larger sample size and greater quantity of data available, whereas less popular niche subjects are less likely for the opposite reason. The latter category are more likely to be taken in private schools. And pupils who were at schools with few previous pupils going on to high grade subjects are penalised more because of the school's lack of track record. Again, private schools benefit.

There are only a finite number of places for a lot of subjects so simply saying that everybody can appeal or have the best of the various measures risks overfilling some courses, doesn't it? I assume that offers are made based on data from previous years and a degree of overselling, like the airlines, is needed. If the pass rate has sharply risen because there are additional ways to meet the grade, how can everyone's offer be honoured?

Judging by some of the examples quoted in the media I am not certain that I could agree with you that the niche subjects are more likely to be sat in the independent schools.

Most of the pupils complaining about their grades in the more esoteric subjects seemed to be from state schools and colleges.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

View attachment 32046

This sums up a lot of the situation well.

That is her somewhat less than objective view arising from schools' previous results being a part of the algorithm.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

That is her somewhat less than objective view arising from schools' previous results being a part of the algorithm.

Considering the gov have announced the triple lock grade system because this mess is so bad it shows they really dropped the ball

Students already had disappointment and some may lose out whilst appeals take place

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/...triple-lock-written-exam-explained-577436/amp

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Considering the gov have announced the triple lock grade system because this mess is so bad it shows they really dropped the ball

Students already had disappointment and some may lose out whilst appeals take place

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/...triple-lock-written-exam-explained-577436/amp

So how should grades have been assessed?

Plenty of negativity around but not too much constructive criticism.

What in addition to teacher assessments, historic results and mock results could or should have been included?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

So how should grades have been assessed?

Plenty of negativity around but not too much constructive criticism.

What in addition to teacher assessments, historic results and mock results could or should have been included?

Oh if only the government hadn't changed the system so there was less course work on which pupils ability could be judged.

So gov been ruining schools for years.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Oh if only the government hadn't changed the system so there was less course work on which pupils ability could be judged.

So gov been ruining schools for years.

They changed that for sound educational reasons so how have they been ruining schools. In any event coursework will have formed a major part of the teacher assessments included within the gradings.

You appear to be big on rhetoric but short on suggestions of alternative methods.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

They changed that for sound educational reasons so how have they been ruining schools.

You appear to be big on rhetoric but short on suggestions of alternative methods.

How can a system that downgrades state schools but upgrades private schools be fair and consistent?

The system is flawed and has already been deemed so by government (how quick do they turn a decision normally? Shows their wrong)

They could have trusted the teachers

https://www.whatuni.com/advice/coro...levels-grades-awarded-in-2020/87371/?amp=true

The problem came when looking at the previous grades and they have graded down in lower performing schools and higher in higher performing schools even on grades that would be acceptable

It's a massive failing to the students and for them to already have a system in place to override it shows it's a massive mistake.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

How can a system that downgrades state schools but upgrades private schools be fair and consistent?

The system is flawed and has already been deemed so by government (how quick do they turn a decision normally? Shows their wrong)

They could have trusted the teachers

https://www.whatuni.com/advice/coro...levels-grades-awarded-in-2020/87371/?amp=true

The problem came when looking at the previous grades and they have graded down in lower performing schools and higher in higher performing schools even on grades that would be acceptable

It's a massive failing to the students and for them to already have a system in place to override it shows it's a massive mistake.

Also AS level grades are a good indication of ability

 

[Deleted member 18588]

How can a system that downgrades state schools but upgrades private schools be fair and consistent?

The system is flawed and has already been deemed so by government (how quick do they turn a decision normally? Shows their wrong)

They could have trusted the teachers

https://www.whatuni.com/advice/coro...levels-grades-awarded-in-2020/87371/?amp=true

The problem came when looking at the previous grades and they have graded down in lower performing schools and higher in higher performing schools even on grades that would be acceptable

It's a massive failing to the students and for them to already have a system in place to override it shows it's a massive mistake.

So no criticism of some teachers who seem to quite clearly have inflated the grades awarded?

And there are plenty of instances of pupils in the independent sector being downgraded.

Personally, were I not retired and still employing school leavers I would be very sceptical of any qualifications based solely upon teachers' assessments.

 

[Deleted member 27823]

There’s no good answer but the algorithm used was obviously unsound.

Even if the basis for it was reasonable, which is open to debate, it failed.

They had a massive historical data set to test it against; last year’s predicted and actual results. Reportedly it only had a 67% success rate when tested against that data. If true, it’s a massive failure of leadership to use that for real.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

So no criticism of some teachers who seem to quite clearly have inflated the grades awarded?

And there are plenty of instances of pupils in the independent sector being downgraded.

Personally, were I not retired and still employing school leavers I would be very sceptical of any qualifications based solely upon teachers' assessments.

Which you should be anyways as grades are massively overatted... Some people don't learn well in a school environment but Excell in the workplace and other areas.

Like a degree may show you can learn doesn't show you can do bugger all.

I'd be more trusting of a teacher's view than on the day performance as they spend all year with them and can gauge their true ability rather than their nerves

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Which you should be anyways as grades are massively overatted... Some people don't learn well in a school environment but Excell in the workplace and other areas.

Like a degree may show you can learn doesn't show you can do bugger all.

I'd be more trusting of a teacher's view than on the day performance as they spend all year with them and can gauge their true ability rather than their nerves

And have often allowed personalities to become involved.

 

[rulefan]

They could have trusted the teachers

https://www.whatuni.com/advice/coro...levels-grades-awarded-in-2020/87371/?amp=true

Quote from student in the above link

It would have been unfair to give everyone their predicted grades because a lot of schools inflate them, which would put our school at a disadvantage because many departments under-predict more than anything else.

 

[AmandaJR]

There's a reason why teacher's aren't permitted anywhere near a live exam anymore...they have a vested interest.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Quote from student in the above link

It would have been unfair to give everyone their predicted grades because a lot of schools inflate them, which would put our school at a disadvantage because many departments under-predict more than anything else.

But also on that side if students are told their predicted grades and their good enough to get into uni even if under predicted that's all that matters to them

 

[Deleted member 27823]

Quote from student in the above link

It would have been unfair to give everyone their predicted grades because a lot of schools inflate them, which would put our school at a disadvantage because many departments under-predict more than anything else.

It's a bit confusing but I don't think that out of context quote from May is actually about the way grades have just been decided.

 

[Ethan]

Judging by some of the examples quoted in the media I am not certain that I could agree with you that the niche subjects are more likely to be sat in the independent schools.

Most of the pupils complaining about their grades in the more esoteric subjects seemed to be from state schools and colleges.

There are likely to be more examples from state than independent because there are more of those to start with. It isn't just less popular subjects but smaller class sizes. This affects the amount of statistical manipulation possible.

Read this.