Coronavirus - political views - supporting or otherwise...

[Old Skier]

Masks may or may not be the answer but so many don’t wear them properly and others spend most of their time fiddling with them the risk grows with the “we are all safe because we wear masks” that complacency will kick in which was the main worry by SAGE in the first place,

 

[Ethan]

I thought they weren’t bought in because the evidence was weak and nobody wears and uses a mask properly, touching, adjusting then contaminating stuff.

Then the advice changed because some unscrupulous chaps was lobbying for them. One being sadiq Khan.
There was an article I read on the BBC that stated the WHO was lobbied to change its advice but it was removed.

As far as I can tell, the advice consists of two main elements. One is based on measuring how much of the content of a cough/breath from someone wearing/not wearing a mask reaches someone else at various distances away wearing/not wearing a mask. That varies between masks, obviously. That shows that a properly fitted mask (an important qualifier) reduces the amount someone coughs out, and to a lesser extent the amount someone else takes in (because you can also absorb via the eyes, for example).

The second bit is that the countries that have had a really good Covid experience, especially in S E Asia, are high masks wearers, dating from SARS.

Given that the downside of masks are extremely minor for almost every person, including asthmatics and those with COPD, then it is really a no-brainer to recommend them. Some kids with autism spectrum disorder are quite sensitive to them.

 

[Ethan]

Masks may or may not be the answer but so many don’t wear them properly and others spend most of their time fiddling with them the risk grows with the “we are all safe because we wear masks” that complacency will kick in which was the main worry by SAGE in the first place,

Is that the same SAGE whose behavioural psychologists were convinced that compliance fatigue would kick in after 4-5 weeks anyway?

 

[Old Skier]

Is that the same SAGE whose behavioural psychologists were convinced that compliance fatigue would kick in after 4-5 weeks anyway?

It’s the official SAGE, I, like you have no idea if their advise is good or bad, we can only give our opinions.

 

[Ethan]

It’s the official SAGE, I, like you have no idea if their advise is good or bad, we can only give our opinions.

You, like I, can read minutes of SAGE meetings and see the evidence provided (including external stuff like the the now infamous Imperial report) and form a judgement. We can also listen to experts from SAGE and their subcommittees comment publicly and offer their opinions, some of which have been critical of Govt policy.

I don't know if you think or know if the advice was good or bad, nor are you in any position to comment whether I do or not.

 

[Old Skier]

You, like I, can read minutes of SAGE meetings and see the evidence provided (including external stuff like the the now infamous Imperial report) and form a judgement. We can also listen to experts from SAGE and their subcommittees comment publicly and offer their opinions, some of which have been critical of Govt policy.

I don't know if you think or know if the advice was good or bad, nor are you in any position to comment whether I do or not.

I'm not sure what your on about as my post was about the inappropriate way people are using masks and how it proved the SAGE committee initial fears correct.

 

[Ethan]

I'm not sure what your on about as my post was about the inappropriate way people are using masks and how it proved the SAGE committee initial fears correct.

That's not what you said.

But mask use is actually pretty good in shops - I was in Tesco a while ago and didn't see anyone beyond primary school age without one. Social distancing practice improved after the initial period when people get used to it. Why do you say SAGE was right about mask use?

 

[Old Skier]

That's not what you said.

But mask use is actually pretty good in shops - I was in Tesco a while ago and didn't see anyone beyond primary school age without one. Social distancing practice improved after the initial period when people get used to it. Why do you say SAGE was right about mask use?

Because in the past SAGE indicated that people’s behaviour when they were wearing masks, improper wearing of them, false sense of security and possible cross contamination, was a concern.

 

[Ethan]

Because in the past SAGE indicated that people’s behaviour when they were wearing masks, improper wearing of them, false sense of security and possible cross contamination, was a concern.

I know that. That was based on behavioural psychology rather than clinical science. That was the same people who said that people would not tolerate more than 4-5 weeks of lockdown. They were wrong about that.

It is very dangerous to postpone doing something you think needs doing because you think it won't get public support. The right thing is to do what needs doing when it needs doing and find a way to make it stick.

 

[Old Skier]

I know that. That was based on behavioural psychology rather than clinical science. That was the same people who said that people would not tolerate more than 4-5 weeks of lockdown. They were wrong about that.

It is very dangerous to postpone doing something you think needs doing because you think it won't get public support. The right thing is to do what needs doing when it needs doing and find a way to make it stick.

You and I are unfortunately in the hands of the experts and hopefully lessons will be learned and next time will be implemented.

 

[Ethan]

You and I are unfortunately in the hands of the experts and hopefully lessons will be learned and next time will be implemented.

Some of the lessons need to be learned now because this is not over and there are further difficult decisions yet to be taken.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I thought they weren’t bought in because the evidence was weak and nobody wears and uses a mask properly, touching, adjusting then contaminating stuff.

Then the advice changed because some unscrupulous chaps was lobbying for them. One being sadiq Khan.
There was an article I read on the BBC that stated the WHO was lobbied to change its advice but it was removed.

That was an issue across the world, but some Countries still insisted on them from minute one.

I’m not blaming our Government’s decision, whether that was correct at the time or not will come out in an enquiry, as for the argument about peoples behaviour (fiddling with them etc), that’s a deflection for me, you will always get extremes at both ends when a Government (regardless of party) brings new measures in.

They should base their decision on trying to protect everyone, knowing full well some idiots know better.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I know that. That was based on behavioural psychology rather than clinical science. That was the same people who said that people would not tolerate more than 4-5 weeks of lockdown. They were wrong about that.

It is very dangerous to postpone doing something you think needs doing because you think it won't get public support. The right thing is to do what needs doing when it needs doing and find a way to make it stick.

Not so sure they were. I don't see a disciplined nation following guidelines and rules. How many instances of people doing their thing (Durdle Dor for example) and then saying rules are confusing.etc.
And if a second spike comes, I fear it will be even worse.
Genuinely, I hope I'm wrong on that.

 

[Ethan]

Not so sure they were. I don't see a disciplined nation following guidelines and rules. How many instances of people doing their thing (Durdle Dor for example) and then saying rules are confusing.etc.
And if a second spike comes, I fear it will be even worse.
Genuinely, I hope I'm wrong on that.

Govt was pleasantly surprised how well the initial request to work from home was taken up, a lot fewer key workers kids were at school than expected and the high streets were very quiet until badly trailed easing was announced, which triggered a pre-easing. Nobody ever expected there would be slavish 100% compliance but overall it was better than expected. The rules should have been clearer, for sure. Other disciplined nations followed the rules.

On masks, I think simpler rules should be applied, and medical exemptions would be few and far between, and only with a doctor's approval, not self-certification by buying a lanyard.

 

[Deleted member 27823]

So depressing to see so many kids getting screwed over by a patently unfair system for awarding grades. Some really upsetting stories of students being awarded lower grades than they ever achieved in exams and having uni places withdrawn as a result. The way they are being treated ,postcodes affecting grades, is shameful.

 

[SocketRocket]

So depressing to see so many kids getting screwed over by a patently unfair system for awarding grades. Some really upsetting stories of students being awarded lower grades than they ever achieved in exams and having uni places withdrawn as a result. The way they are being treated ,postcodes affecting grades, is shameful.

Who do you believe these people are wanting to screw kids over and why would they want to?

 

[drdel]

Who do you believe these people are wanting to screw kids over and why would they want to?

Because just about anything must be a conspiracy.

Despite the fact that the method or algorithm has been developed by people with no political slant the personalisation of stuff polical means Gavin Williamson must be shot.

Getting a process to award grades across the whole of the education system is extremely challenging and will always generate winners and losers. Hopefully the Appeals process can address any grave mistakes.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Because just about anything must be a conspiracy.

Despite the fact that the method or algorithm has been developed by people with no political slant the personalisation of stuff polical means Gavin Williamson must be shot.

Getting a process to award grades across the whole of the education system is extremely challenging and will always generate winners and losers. Hopefully the Appeals process can address any grave mistakes.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/a-le...uldnt-sign-non-disclosure-agreements-12049289

 

[Deleted member 27823]

You guys are so predictable and so lacking in empathy. Not a care for kids who’ve had their futures blighted by this patently unfair process.

 

[drdel]

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/a-le...uldnt-sign-non-disclosure-agreements-12049289

NDA's are a common feature of any examination or related process