Cook and Trott Out

[Deleted member 15344]

You are missing the point.

He will not be in charge of the England team. That is the job of the captain.

Really are pushing the boundaries of semantics

Bayliss will be the head coach of England - Just like Andy Flowers and Moores before him they ran the England cricket team and Bayliss will - the head coach is pretty much the guy ruling the teams - it's that way all over the world

I don't believe an Aussie should have that role - just as my Aussie mate believes a "Pom" shouldn't ever have the Aussie equivalent - the rivalry is too strong and it's just my opinion

 

[Deleted member 15344]

OK. As Rich said who is your nominated alternative?

Bell's contribution on Saturday evening whilst not a lot of runs was vital and was another role that helped us win the match -

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Really are pushing the boundaries of semantics

Bayliss will be the head coach of England - Just like Andy Flowers and Moores before him they ran the England cricket team and Bayliss will - the head coach is pretty much the guy ruling the teams - it's that way all over the world

I don't believe an Aussie should have that role - just as my Aussie mate believes a "Pom" shouldn't ever have the Aussie equivalent - the rivalry is too strong and it's just my opinion

Under the new set up I think you will find that it is "Straussy" who is running the England cricket team. After all since when in England did the coach pick the team.

He may be consulted but he won't be picking the team, that will remain with the selectors and "Straussy".

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Bell's contribution on Saturday evening whilst not a lot of runs was vital and was another role that helped us win the match -

Agreed and I am still awaiting Homer's suggestion as a replacement.

FWIW I have seen Ian Bell develop right through from a kid and I am a big fan (despite him supporting the Villa!). I do think his career is now entering its twilight stage but until a valid alternative comes along England should stick with him.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Agreed and I am still awaiting Homer's suggestion as a replacement.

FWIW I have seen Ian Bell develop right through from a kid and I am a big fan (despite him supporting the Villa!). I do think his career is now entering its twilight stage but until a valid alternative comes along England should stick with him.

You won't get an answer - the only viable player right now would be Taylor IMO but I would prefer to stick with Bell

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm not really bothered what nationality he is, as long as he makes us as good as we can be. The players are there to be a good One Day team, they just need to pick them, and be coached into the correct way of thinking, to be encouraged to have no fear. Excited to see how he gets on and what he brings to the side!

In regards to the One Day team, who would you pick? Personally, I would go with:

Hales
Ali
Stokes
Taylor
Root *
Buttler
Billings +
Jordan
Tredwell
Wood
Anderson

Give Stokes license and responsibility at number 3, same with Buttler at 6. Let him focus on his batting in One Dayers and give the gloves to the impressive Billings. The side has depth in batting with Jordan at 8, but also depth in bowling with Anderson, Wood, Jordan, Stokes, Tredwell and Ali all front-line bowling options. I would have KP at 4, but I'm being realistic, that isn't happening anytime soon, so we have to move on without him, and Taylor is a very capable top-order bat. Just needs to be given confidence that his place is secure, so he can play the free-flowing, attacking game he plays for Notts. Root also has to be given the captaincy, he's the natural successor to Cook in the Test format, so should be given the chance to impress in Limited Overs cricket. Thoughts?

Hales
Ali
Taylor
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Overton
Rashid
Wood

Taylor/Morgan as skipper

 

[Dan2501]

Which Overton? Craig or Jamie? I actually forgot someone who I'd put in my team. In place of Wood, I'd pick Lewis Gregory, amazed he doesn't have more people talking about him. Is tearing it up on one of the flattest pitches in England, and gives it a whack with the bat! You'd pick Rashid over Tredwell in One Dayers? That's an interesting shout!

So I'd go with:

Hales
Ali
Stokes
Taylor
Root *
Buttler
Billings +
Jordan
Gregory
Tredwell
Anderson

There's quite a few options really if you were forced to get rid of Bell. Taylor, Vince, Hales and Hildreth could all do a job, as could Pietersen, but he won't get picked. Loads of excellent batsmen knocking about County Cricket. None of them better than Bell though, as he proves every time he goes back and plays for Warwickshire. He might be in the middle of a low-patch (though at least he's still contributing big scores every now and then), but he's still one of the top 2 or 3 batsmen in the country, and had an excellent series last time the Aussies were here.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Which Overton? Craig or Jamie? I actually forgot someone who I'd put in my team. In place of Wood, I'd pick Lewis Gregory, amazed he doesn't have more people talking about him. Is tearing it up on one of the flattest pitches in England, and gives it a whack with the bat! You'd pick Rashid over Tredwell in One Dayers? That's an interesting shout!

So I'd go with:

Hales
Ali
Stokes
Taylor
Root *
Buttler
Billings +
Jordan
Gregory
Tredwell
Anderson

There's quite a few options really if you were forced to get rid of Bell. Taylor, Vince, Hales and Hildreth could all do a job, as could Pietersen, but he won't get picked. Loads of excellent batsmen knocking about County Cricket. None of them better than Bell though, as he proves every time he goes back and plays for Warwickshire. He might be in the middle of a low-patch (though at least he's still contributing big scores every now and then), but he's still one of the top 2 or 3 batsmen in the country, and had an excellent series last time the Aussies were here.

Right now Craig is the one playing better and prob deserves a crack - Jamie though I believe is a better player - quicker and more hostile

Gregory isn't a bad shout - needs to find consistency

Yes KP won't get picked no matter how many times you say it

Too late for Hildreath , Hales isn't a number 4 , Vince I think just lacks that something extra. Taylor I believe will take over from Bell

 

[Dan2501]

Gregory needs to find consistency but Craig Overton doesn't? Gregory didn't have the best LA season last season, but even so took more wickets in 8 games than Overton has in his whole career. He's also averaging sub-28 in all 3 formats, Overton averages 54 in OD cricket and 61 in T20. He's not even the best bowler in his family, let alone at Somerset. Certainly wouldn't trust an attack that features Overton, Woakes, and Rashid to be economical and take wickets.

Hales bats 3 for Notts, not a big difference to batting 4 really. Vince has been AWESOME for Hampshire the last few years, and should really be next in line. He scores his runs quickly, is averaging over 60 in his last 2 FC seasons scoring 9 hundreds. He is also excellent across all formats of the game, and has a brilliant cricketing brain, as he's proved as Hampshire skipper. What exactly is he lacking?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Gregory needs to find consistency but Craig Overton doesn't? Gregory didn't have the best LA season last season, but even so took more wickets in 8 games than Overton has in his whole career. He's also averaging sub-28 in all 3 formats, Overton averages 54 in OD cricket and 61 in T20. He's not even the best bowler in his family, let alone at Somerset. Certainly wouldn't trust an attack that features Overton, Woakes, and Rashid to be economical and take wickets.

Hales bats 3 for Notts, not a big difference to batting 4 really. Vince has been AWESOME for Hampshire the last few years, and should really be next in line. He scores his runs quickly, is averaging over 60 in his last 2 FC seasons scoring 9 hundreds. He is also excellent across all formats of the game, and has a brilliant cricketing brain, as he's proved as Hampshire skipper. What exactly is he lacking?

Did you not read the bit where I said Jamie is a better player ? But Craig is playing better right now hence his call up to the Lions and Jamie missing out - in the end Jamie will be the one that shines through

And seen Gregory bowl far too many loose balls and be smacked all over the place - the stats as always don't tell the full story

 

[Dan2501]

I read that bit, but I also read the bit where you picked a bloke who has 10 domestic One Day wickets for the England One Day International team. No way he's ready for that stage. Gregory is, hence his call-up for the Ireland ODi squad. I know some guys that watch a lot of Somerset, and they rate Gregory as one of the most talented youngsters in the country. I've also seen him bat, and he gives the ball an almighty whack. and his hundred against Durham last year was a fantastic display of hitting. The stats don't tell the whole story, but he must be doing something right to be picking up so many wickets on a flat deck like Taunton in all formats of the game!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I read that bit, but I also read the bit where you picked a bloke who has 10 domestic One Day wickets for the England One Day International team. No way he's ready for that stage. Gregory is, hence his call-up for the Ireland ODi squad. I know some guys that watch a lot of Somerset, and they rate Gregory as one of the most talented youngsters in the country. I've also seen him bat, and he gives the ball an almighty whack. and his hundred against Durham last year was a fantastic display of hitting. The stats don't tell the whole story, but he must be doing something right to be picking up so many wickets on a flat deck like Taunton in all formats of the game!

I spent four years at Somerset Academy and my brother currently is a fitness coach for the Academy - it's the Overtans that has everyone excited

 

[Dan2501]

It's Gregory that's taking wickets and hitting hundreds

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's Gregory that's taking wickets and hitting hundreds

Hundred - single only had the one ton

But remember I haven't said he is a bad player just had issues with consistency with the ball in hand at times - improved a lot over the last 3 months of last summer

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Whilst I agree that stats don't always tell the whole story it is concerning that so many of us make judgements based on perceptions.

Like most I would say that McCullum is a far superior ODI batsmen compared with Bell and yet, whilst he has played over 80 more ODI's McCullum has only scored nearly 400 more runs and has an average of 30 compared with Bell's 37.

True his Strike Rate is 94 against 77 but I must admit to being amazed by the figures. Not suggesting that Bell is a better ODI bat than McCullum but it just goes to show that perceptions as well as stats can be misleading.

 

[Dan2501]

To be fair to McCullum he does average 35 since 2008, and has a strike rate over 100 with 5 hundreds.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

To be fair to McCullum he does average 35 since 2008, and has a strike rate over 100 with 5 hundreds.

As I say I am not knocking him (or pushing Bell) as I think he is a terrific entertainer.

I was merely saying that we can all, at times, be misled by the media and the images and the resulting perceptions that are created.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Stats can be used to enhance reputations etc but nothing beats seeing the person play

Bopara is the prime example - on paper he looked good but he could never score runs when needed - guarantee that he would score during a lost cause

 

[Dan2501]

Ravi is the most frustrating cricketer I've ever watched. I've seen him play some of the most amazing innings I've ever seen. He hit a T20 (or OD, can't quite remember which format) hundred for Essex which was just unbelievably awesome. He was utterly dominant and looked at ease, yet bats completely different for England. I thought he'd shown how good he could be against the West Indies in 2009, but never maintained that expectation. Gutted he didn't kick on and hold down a Test spot, he had the talent, one of the most talented players I've ever seen.

Yeah definitely. It's the same with Chris Gayle really. Has a magnificent T20 record, but his ODi record is fairly average, even his SR doesn't jump off the page like you'd expect it too. Also goes to show just how good someone like AB De Villiers is. In the same timeframe that I've used for McCullum, he has 6045 ODi runs at an average of 63, is getting them at a strike rate of 104 and has 17 hundreds. What a player.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ravi is the most frustrating cricketer I've ever watched. I've seen him play some of the most amazing innings I've ever seen. He hit a T20 (or OD, can't quite remember which format) hundred for Essex which was just unbelievably awesome. He was utterly dominant and looked at ease, yet bats completely different for England. I thought he'd shown how good he could be against the West Indies in 2009, but never maintained that expectation. Gutted he didn't kick on and hold down a Test spot, he had the talent, one of the most talented players I've ever seen.

Yeah definitely. It's the same with Chris Gayle really. Has a magnificent T20 record, but his ODi record is fairly average, even his SR doesn't jump off the page like you'd expect it too. Also goes to show just how good someone like AB De Villiers is. In the same timeframe that I've used for McCullum, he has 6045 ODi runs at an average of 63, is getting them at a strike rate of 104 and has 17 hundreds. What a player.

With Bopara I have always thought it was a confidence issue.

At Essex he is guaranteed to play so is not worried or afraid to fail. With England he has always seemed to be "looking over his shoulder" expecting to be dumped if he failed. Some players can take their County confidence with them to the England team whilst others can't.