Cook and Trott Out

[Deleted member 18588]

Which experts ? Heard lots of experts over the last 5 days and most very wrong when judging players

and yes seen him play

Seen nothing from Woakes to suggest he will be a danger as a test bowler and certainly not with the bat. Get a bit of fire in his belly and a bit of attitude and maybe

As he has only played four Tests how can you judge.

In First Class cricket he averages 37 with the bat and 25 with the ball, so you tell me who is the all-rounder.

"Attitude" is vastly over-rated and when overdone players can end up making fools of themselves as Stokes did in the West Indies.

 

[Tongo]

As he has only played four Tests how can you judge.

In First Class cricket he averages 37 with the bat and 25 with the ball, so you tell me who is the all-rounder.

"Attitude" is vastly over-rated and when overdone players can end up making fools of themselves as Stokes did in the West Indies.

Ramprakash and Hick averaged ridiculous numbers in first class cricket but couldnt convert to international cricket. Meanwhile Trescothick's first class average was nothing special when he made his test debut but he settled in nicely.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As he has only played four Tests how can you judge.

In First Class cricket he averages 37 with the bat and 25 with the ball, so you tell me who is the all-rounder.

"Attitude" is vastly over-rated and when overdone players can end up making fools of themselves as Stokes did in the West Indies.

I guess in the same way you judged Stokes

I prefer to base on watching them as oppose to numbers - it's how you judged Stokes and he proved those numbers wrong in a five day period - first class numbers don't mean much

And attitude is far from vastly overrated with arrogance and self belief flowing through a lot of the feisty players in the past that have gone on to do well

Stokes will grow from this test and will develop - has that spot sealed until the end of the summer at the very least right now.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Ramprakash and Hick averaged ridiculous numbers in first class cricket but couldnt convert to international cricket. Meanwhile Trescothick's first class average was nothing special when he made his test debut but he settled in nicely.

So his figures are better, his speeds are greater but Hey! so what.

 

[Tongo]

It amuses me greatly how, despite the performances over the weekend, some people still focus on what a player cant do rather than what he can. Stokes rattles off the fastest test 100 at Lords, almost scored another in the first innings and produced a match turning performance with the ball. Yet there's some who prefer to say "Ah, but he didnt do this, this and this." Come on.

I listened to TMS this afternoon and the atmosphere post Stokes' 2 in 2 balls was electric. There was genuine excitement in the commentators voices. 20,000+ turned up for the 5th day of a test match with plenty of kids among them. For once England were playing exciting and successful cricket rather than the dull, turgid equivalent of late. What sort of effect do you think Stokes' performances had on the rest of the team? Lets not forget that he's only 23 and only played 10 tests. And lets not forget the 100 and the 6 wicket haul against the Aussies when the rest of the team were getting annihilated.

How many other countries would be so sceptical about such an exciting player?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So his figures are better, his speeds are greater but Hey! so what.

75 runs in 4 tests and 6 wickets - Stokes got more than both in the one test down under when he started

Stokes proved you massively wrong over the last 5 days

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So selectors don't use figures as a factor in selecting players and it's all to do with potential. I still think Stokes is a long way from the finished article and his first innings figures show he can still be inconsistent. As a batsmen I agree he is flourishing but if he's being lined up as the new all rounder there is still work to be done

 

[Deleted member 18588]

75 runs in 4 tests and 6 wickets - Stokes got more than both in the one test down under when he started

And then disappeared for the next eight Tests.

As for the last five days. Rubbish!

His century was spectacular and as I have said his bowling today was excellent. However, forget the dropped catches, every bowler has to suffer them, his bowling in the Kiwis first innings was brainless and carried no threat.

I hope today's performance represents a turning of the corner but his Test career to date suggests we should wait before hailing the arrival of a new Messiah.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And then disappeared for the next eight Tests.

As for the last five days. Rubbish!

His century was spectacular and as I have said his bowling today was excellent. However, forget the dropped catches, every bowler has to suffer them, his bowling in the Kiwis first innings was brainless and carried no threat.

I hope today's performance represents a turning of the corner but his Test career to date suggests we should wait before hailing the arrival of a new Messiah.

Bravo!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And then disappeared for the next eight Tests.

As for the last five days. Rubbish!

His century was spectacular and as I have said his bowling today was excellent. However, forget the dropped catches, every bowler has to suffer them, his bowling in the Kiwis first innings was brainless and carried no threat.

I hope today's performance represents a turning of the corner but his Test career to date suggests we should wait before hailing the arrival of a new Messiah.

Let's not forget his 90 odd in the first innings also

And you can't forget the dropped catches ( well you can if you are trying to dismiss the player ) - it actually shows that he did carry a threat as he created chances for wickets

Tongo has it spot on - the lad has turned the test for us and still people looking to dismiss him

 

[Tongo]

And then disappeared for the next eight Tests.

As for the last five days. Rubbish!

His century was spectacular and as I have said his bowling today was excellent. However, forget the dropped catches, every bowler has to suffer them, his bowling in the Kiwis first innings was brainless and carried no threat.

I hope today's performance represents a turning of the corner but his Test career to date suggests we should wait before hailing the arrival of a new Messiah.

Not quite. 5/91 in the match against India at Lords in a losing battle whilst he scored 114 runs in the first WI test and took 2/42 in the third test where Cook barely bowled him as England's other superstar bowlers couldnt stop Darren Bravo and Blackwood.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Let's not forget his 90 odd in the first innings also

And you can't forget the dropped catches ( well you can if you are trying to dismiss the player ) - it actually shows that he did carry a threat as he created chances for wickets

Tongo has it spot on - the lad has turned the test for us and still people looking to dismiss him

Where have I dismissed him? I have urged caution and used Woakes as an example to show that, as yet, he has not proved himself at this level. Hopefully he will in due course.

His much vaunted "attitude" clearly backfired in the West Indies. It was not just Colin Graves whose nose they wanted to rub in the Bridgetown dirt.

 

[richart]

[INDENT[/INDENT]

Quality win and that shoves a few words down people's throats all over the place

Some great performances out there over the 5 days and after all the negative press it's brilliant to see them win

Stokes - brilliant - turned the match for us twice

Cook - wonderful with the bat and some great attacking decisions

Root - just gets better

So many more really impressive performances

For a team with so many in abject form with no match winners or players who can turn a game and won't bowl out New Zealand they did pretty well

How Lyth can be even talked about negatively yet is hilarious - he has had two innings !!

Some good points well made. Lath got two good balls which would have got a lot of openers out. Seem to remember Gooch started with three ducks. you can't judge someone on one test. it is also not as if we have a long line of great openers ready to replace him. Lees might be one in a couple of years. Ballance has one bad game, and is suddenly a weakness. Bell is a class batsmen and Will come good. If four of your top six batsmen are firing on a regular basis you will be fine in a test. Root looks like he is the perfect number five, who can take the game away from the opposition with his positive batting. Also a good player of spin. Middle order really suits his style.

Broad bowled better in this test, pitching it up more. Wood seems to offer something different, good pace and reminds me of Simon Jones.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

[INDENT[/INDENT] Some good points well made. Lath got two good balls which would have got a lot of openers out. Seem to remember Gooch started with three ducks. you can't judge someone on one test. it is also not as if we have a long line of great openers ready to replace him. Lees might be one in a couple of years. Ballance has one bad game, and is suddenly a weakness. Bell is a class batsmen and Will come good. If four of your top six batsmen are firing on a regular basis you will be fine in a test. Root looks like he is the perfect number five, who can take the game away from the opposition with his positive batting. Also a good player of spin. Middle order really suits his style.

Broad bowled better in this test, pitching it up more. Wood seems to offer something different, good pace and reminds me of Simon Jones.

Spot on Rich - they all played their part

And can see exactly what you mean in regards Wood

He didn't stop smiling the whole way through the test

My only worry is a spinner

 

[Tongo]

Spot on Rich - they all played their part

And can see exactly what you mean in regards Wood

He didn't stop smiling the whole way through the test

My only worry is a spinner

The TMS boys were saying the same thing.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Yes it was a great test match and a great win but I think it's a bit soon for all the "told you so's" to be getting thrown around. If we use the same logic then Stoke are going to win the Premier League next season and Liverpool are going to get relegated after yesterday's result. There are plenty of positives to take from the match but lets see how the rest of the year plays out before getting too excited.

The best thing that could've happened this morning was for England to get bowled out fairly quickly rather than bat on until after lunch as could easily have happened. Not saying that would have been wrong as in a two match series you don't want to gift the opposition a chance of winning the first test. I don't think we would've won the match if we hadn't been bowled out and had waited for England to declare.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

[INDENT[/INDENT] Some good points well made. Lath got two good balls which would have got a lot of openers out. Seem to remember Gooch started with three ducks. you can't judge someone on one test. it is also not as if we have a long line of great openers ready to replace him. Lees might be one in a couple of years. Ballance has one bad game, and is suddenly a weakness. Bell is a class batsmen and Will come good. If four of your top six batsmen are firing on a regular basis you will be fine in a test. Root looks like he is the perfect number five, who can take the game away from the opposition with his positive batting. Also a good player of spin. Middle order really suits his style.

Broad bowled better in this test, pitching it up more. Wood seems to offer something different, good pace and reminds me of Simon Jones.

Bell is a class batsmen who was very poor in the West Indies and failed again at Lords. How long keep faith especially if the other top order batsmen are also getting out cheaply. You can't rely on the middle order, especially against top sides and how often has England had four top batsmen firing in the last eighteen months

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The TMS boys were saying the same thing.

Even Lyth looked like he was enjoying himself in the field - the whole feeling within the match from the team looked very positive and very encouraging after all the hammerings they have been taking in recent weeks

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Even Lyth looked like he was enjoying himself in the field - the whole feeling within the match from the team looked very positive and very encouraging after all the hammerings they have been taking in recent weeks

Easy to look happy when things are going well as they did today. Think the real test will come when in the next match and NZ will come back fiercely and Australia won't be so loose in their batting and won't let England escape from a 30-4 situation

 

[Tongo]

Even Lyth looked like he was enjoying himself in the field - the whole feeling within the match from the team looked very positive and very encouraging after all the hammerings they have been taking in recent weeks

Yeah. Nobody with a sensible grasp of the game is saying England are now world beaters but they've taken some steps in the right direction and caught the cricketing public's imagination for a few moments.