Cook and Trott Out

[Tongo]

Great stuff from England. I've been one of Cook's staunchest critics but fair play to him today. He made some decisions which have worked well and England have emerged victorious.

It is great to see England playing good, attacking cricket as well.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Yes it was a good win from 30-4 but I still think we're a long way from being one of the best sides in the world and would put us as 4th best at a push

Well at least 4 th place gets us Champions League

Oh wait a minute

I'll get my coat ......again

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Great stuff from England. I've been one of Cook's staunchest critics but fair play to him today. He made some decisions which have worked well and England have emerged victorious.

It is great to see England playing good, attacking cricket as well.

Fair post :thup:

Still a few issues and the spinner is the main one
You could see that Cook really wanted to turn to Ali and surround the bat but Ali just keeps dropping it too short

They won't do it but Rashid does need a chance

 

[Tongo]

Fair post :thup:

Still a few issues and the spinner is the main one
You could see that Cook really wanted to turn to Ali and surround the bat but Ali just keeps dropping it too short

They won't do it but Rashid does need a chance

I will always nail my colours to the mast but dont have an issue admitting when those colours have been proven wrong.

As regards England, yes Ali isnt looking the player he was last summer. Root looks a better spin option at the moment. And Stokes isnt going to produce those sorts of performances each match so others, particularly the bowlers, will need to step up. Stokes' 2 in 2 balls effectively turned the match as the TMS commentators were saying before that that it was like NZ were having a net. (Despite the poor start!)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I will always nail my colours to the mast but dont have an issue admitting when those colours have been proven wrong.

As regards England, yes Ali isnt looking the player he was last summer. Root looks a better spin option at the moment. And Stokes isnt going to produce those sorts of performances each match so others, particularly the bowlers, will need to step up. Stokes' 2 in 2 balls effectively turned the match as the TMS commentators were saying before that that it was like NZ were having a net. (Despite the poor start!)

Good to see the admission instead of digging the hole bigger - there have been some whoppers said on here over the weeks that have been proved very wrong over the last 5 days

Was surprised that Root wasn't used more as he has been dangerous before

Ali isn't a front line spinner and not sure if he can develop into one

Stokes just needs to stop those boundary deliveries that he keeps throwing into every over but he looked very dangerous and quick today and can certainly see him developing more as a bowler. With the bat I think he will just play his natural game and will counter attack

Was impressed with Buttlers keeping - that's coming on very nicely

Broad looked very lively today

Will be interesting to see how Wood develops.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Good to see the admission instead of digging the hole bigger - there have been some whoppers said on here over the weeks that have been proved very wrong over the last 5 days

Was surprised that Root wasn't used more as he has been dangerous before

Ali isn't a front line spinner and not sure if he can develop into one

Stokes just needs to stop those boundary deliveries that he keeps throwing into every over but he looked very dangerous and quick today and can certainly see him developing more as a bowler. With the bat I think he will just play his natural game and will counter attack

Was impressed with Buttlers keeping - that's coming on very nicely

Broad looked very lively today

Will be interesting to see how Wood develops.

Stokes 0-105 in the first innings. NZ batted poorly today to gift England a win. Root and Ali aren't world class spinners and there is still too much reliance on Broad and Anderson

 

[Tongo]

Stokes 0-105 in the first innings. NZ batted poorly today to gift England a win. Root and Ali aren't world class spinners and there is still too much reliance on Broad and Anderson

Didnt Stokes have a couple of dropped catches off of his first innings bowling? Anyhow, he's gonna be one of those players when he looks mediocre one moment and world class the next. But look at how his style turned the game this afternoon: raw pace and getting something out of the pitch. England arent likely to get that from Woakes, Jordan, Bresnan et al.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Didnt Stokes have a couple of dropped catches off of his first innings bowling? Anyhow, he's gonna be one of those players when he looks mediocre one moment and world class the next. But look at how his style turned the game this afternoon: raw pace and getting something out of the pitch. England arent likely to get that from Woakes, Jordan, Bresnan et al.

Bell dropped two catches from his bowling and I think Ali let one through his hands which he shouldn't have

With better catching Stokes could have easily had two or three wickets - shows that stats don't tell the whole story and also also plenty of bowlers in the past have had innings where they pick up nothing for lots of runs

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Didnt Stokes have a couple of dropped catches off of his first innings bowling? Anyhow, he's gonna be one of those players when he looks mediocre one moment and world class the next. But look at how his style turned the game this afternoon: raw pace and getting something out of the pitch. England arent likely to get that from Woakes, Jordan, Bresnan et al.

And that is the problem. Can we afford to have someone who is mediocre at times to support Broad and Anderson. Neither of these can go on forever and have injury issues. He did bowl well this afternoon but we need more support and definitely a spinner

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Stokes 0-105 in the first innings. NZ batted poorly today to gift England a win. Root and Ali aren't world class spinners and there is still too much reliance on Broad and Anderson

Hang on!

I may have been sceptical about Stokes' bowling but fair play he bowled much better today and made a big difference, let's hope he can maintain that improvement throughout the summer.

Ridiculous to imply that the result was attributable to poor batting by the Kiwis. Broad, Wood and Stokes all bowled well, Jimmy was struggling to get it swinging.

Agree that neither Ali nor Root are the answer to the lack of a spinner so we may have to try Rashid although his early season performances have hardly been compelling. If he is not the answer then just forget spin as a serious option as there is no one else kicking the door down.

The batting from 5 downwards plus Cook was excellent in the second innings.

As for the captaincy it was not as defensive as usual although I did struggle to understand the need for a third man when NZ were 12 for 3. Seems Alistair's old habits die hard.

 

[Tongo]

And that is the problem. Can we afford to have someone who is mediocre at times to support Broad and Anderson. Neither of these can go on forever and have injury issues. He did bowl well this afternoon but we need more support and definitely a spinner

England dont have any standout options though do they? They've tried Woakes and Jordan, Bresnan isn't up to it any more whilst the likes of Tremlett are nowhere near international standard. I would much rather they stick with Stokes with his unpredictable style rather than the dependable yet dull Woakes and Jordan who will be milked by quality batsmen.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

England dont have any standout options though do they? They've tried Woakes and Jordan, Bresnan isn't up to it any more whilst the likes of Tremlett are nowhere near international standard. I would much rather they stick with Stokes with his unpredictable style rather than the dependable yet dull Woakes and Jordan who will be milked by quality batsmen.

Spot on again - and also Metal Mickies post spot on as well

So much more positives to take out of the game - to suggest that NZ gifted it to England is disrespectful to some very good performances out there

But as been said - they need to do it again and keep improving

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Didnt Stokes have a couple of dropped catches off of his first innings bowling? Anyhow, he's gonna be one of those players when he looks mediocre one moment and world class the next. But look at how his style turned the game this afternoon: raw pace and getting something out of the pitch. England arent likely to get that from Woakes, Jordan, Bresnan et al.

That is a bit of a myth.

Six months ago the stats showed that on average Woakes was two to three mph quicker than Stokes and his fastest delivery was also quicker.

 

[Tongo]

That is a bit of a myth.

Six months ago the stats showed that on average Woakes was two to three mph quicker than Stokes and his fastest delivery was also quicker.

Woakes doesnt strike me as the sort of player who could produce those match turning performances that Stokes produced though.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Hang on!

I may have been sceptical about Stokes' bowling but fair play he bowled much better today and made a big difference, let's hope he can maintain that improvement throughout the summer.

Ridiculous to imply that the result was attributable to poor batting by the Kiwis. Broad, Wood and Stokes all bowled well, Jimmy was struggling to get it swinging.

Agree that neither Ali nor Root are the answer to the lack of a spinner so we may have to try Rashid although his early season performances have hardly been compelling. If he is not the answer then just forget spin as a serious option as there is no one else kicking the door down.

The batting from 5 downwards plus Cook was excellent in the second innings.

As for the captaincy it was not as defensive as usual although I did struggle to understand the need for a third man when NZ were 12 for 3. Seems Alistair's old habits die hard.

Stokes bowled great today but he doesn't seem to be able to do it for two innings as the first innings figures show. That may come with experience. The NZ side batted poorly and played some loose shots but they were put under pressure. Not sure Rashid is the answer but why not chuck him in for the next match although why change a winning side.

The batting from five down was great in the second innings but we shouldn't have to rely on them to get the top order out of trouble. The way Cook captained was still pretty old school but got results so I don't think you can necessarily condemn him for that

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Woakes doesnt strike me as the sort of player who could produce those match turning performances that Stokes produced though.

I think he can in the ODI arena but not in test cricket

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Woakes doesnt strike me as the sort of player who could produce those match turning performances that Stokes produced though.

Won't know until we try.

Plus he does not enjoy the same sort of Press ballyhoo that surrounds any player from Durham or Yorkshire. Bit like football,a few years ago any young player who played two half decent games for West Ham was immediately touted for England Under 21's. James Tomkins!!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I think he can in the ODI arena but not in test cricket

Sorry Phil but that suggests you have not seen him play. Most experts agree that he is probably better suited to the longer form of the game.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry Phil but that suggests you have not seen him play. Most experts agree that he is probably better suited to the longer form of the game.

Which experts ? Heard lots of experts over the last 5 days and most very wrong when judging players

and yes seen him play

Seen nothing from Woakes to suggest he will be a danger as a test bowler and certainly not with the bat. Get a bit of fire in his belly and a bit of attitude and maybe

 

[Dan2501]

Mark Wood looked decent, I'd give him the summer and see how he goes before considering other options. Anderson, Broad, Wood and Stokes looks a good, varied seam attack for me, just need to sort the spin out. I'd give Moeen another shot. He was excellent against some of the best players of spin last summer, and just seems to be lacking in match-form currently. I'd stick with him for now, but if he fails to deliver again in the 2nd Test, I'd be picking the best of the spinners in the County game for the Ashes, which, ATM looks like Rashid.