Cook and Trott Out

[Deleted member 15344]

Yeah. Nobody with a sensible grasp of the game is saying England are now world beaters but they've taken some steps in the right direction and caught the cricketing public's imagination for a few moments.

Yep spot on - Bell , Ballance , Cook , Stokes and Cook have all got tons in the last 4 tests and all have the ability to pile on the runs

I said it a while back - I don't think the Ashes is far from a forgone conclusion just yet - but work still needs to be done

 

[Tongo]

Easy to look happy when things are going well as they did today. Think the real test will come when in the next match and NZ will come back fiercely and Australia won't be so loose in their batting and won't let England escape from a 30-4 situation

England in all likelihood will lose to Australia and will probably lose comfortably. But they arent going to go from the shambles in the Caribbean to world beaters in four months. They dont have a great number of quality players whilst too many of those they do have are heading toward the end of their careers. But what can you do? England can't magic up half a dozen world class performers overnight. But lets at least enjoy a day when its come good and England played entertaining, attacking cricket. Cos there could be some very rum days ahead.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Yep spot on - Bell , Ballance , Cook , Stokes and Cook have all got tons in the last 4 tests and all have the ability to pile on the runs

I said it a while back - I don't think the Ashes is far from a forgone conclusion just yet - but work still needs to be done

Take out Bell's century and what were his scores in the last six or seven innings including Lords. Very poor and I am not convinced he's in good enough form to warrant a place at the moment and think the Aussies have worked him out

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yeah. Nobody with a sensible grasp of the game is saying England are now world beaters but they've taken some steps in the right direction and caught the cricketing public's imagination for a few moments.

Hear! hear!!

As is usual they are not as bad as some have painted them but neither are they (yet) as good as some might like to believe.

The Aussies are still clear favourites for the Ashes but I don't think it will be as one-sided as some predict.

 

[richart]

Take out Bell's century and what were his scores in the last six or seven innings including Lords. Very poor and I am not convinced he's in good enough form to warrant a place at the moment and think the Aussies have worked him out

So you drop Bell who scored 143 against Windies last month, and replace him with who ? he averages 45 for England, is certainly not too old, and just happens to have quite a good record against Australia at home.

you seem to be knocking England players, but not coming up with any alternatives. we beat a decent New Zealand team, but you want to change half the team. Yes we are struggling for a spinner, but there are not any alternatives. Rashid could not get in the team in the Windies which seems to indicate he was bowling poorly in practice.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So you drop Bell who scored 143 against Windies last month, and replace him with who ? he averages 45 for England, is certainly not too old, and just happens to have quite a good record against Australia at home.

you seem to be knocking England players, but not coming up with any alternatives. we beat a decent New Zealand team, but you want to change half the team. Yes we are struggling for a spinner, but there are not any alternatives. Rashid could not get in the team in the Windies which seems to indicate he was bowling poorly in practice.

Spot on about Bell - doesn't offer alternatives because doesn't know any

It's just continuing to trott out the same nonsense despite facts dispelling it

Cook in abject form - yet scored a ton in the last test and followed it up with another

New Zealand apparently we're going to pile on the runs the bowl is out within a day and game over

Slating the openers despite one getting 160 and the other in his second innings - saying no back up to Broad and Anderson just as Stokes rips through the middle order to turn the game in our favour

Still having a go at Cooks captaincy whilst we won and critising Stokes bowling as he wins the game

And finally putting the win firmly down to poor NZ batting disrespecting the great play of both teams especially the England bowlers from sat morning

Tongo said colours were firmly nailed to the mast before the test but fair play he held hand up and said he got it wrong - others continue to dig the hole

It's going to be a cracking summer of cricket and England will surprise and keep a few quiet

In other news Trevor Bayliss looks like will be the new coach

 

[ColchesterFC]

Spot on about Bell - doesn't offer alternatives because doesn't know any

It's just continuing to trott out the same nonsense despite facts dispelling it

Cook in abject form - yet scored a ton in the last test and followed it up with another

New Zealand apparently we're going to pile on the runs the bowl is out within a day and game over

Slating the openers despite one getting 160 and the other in his second innings - saying no back up to Broad and Anderson just as Stokes rips through the middle order to turn the game in our favour

Still having a go at Cooks captaincy whilst we won and critising Stokes bowling as he wins the game

And finally putting the win firmly down to poor NZ batting disrespecting the great play of both teams especially the England bowlers from sat morning

Tongo said colours were firmly nailed to the mast before the test but fair play he held hand up and said he got it wrong - others continue to dig the hole

It's going to be a cracking summer of cricket and England will surprise and keep a few quiet

In other news Trevor Bayliss looks like will be the new coach

The only possible alternative to Bell would have been to bring Pietersen back and now that has been put to bed there doesn't seem to be a viable alternative. To be clear I don't think they should bring KP back in place of Bell as I think Bell will come good again but equally I don't think they should have closed the door on a return for KP IF he continued to score big runs in county cricket.

Cook had been in pretty poor form but whatever he has done in practise/nets seems to be working and it is good to see him back looking more like the player that was scoring runs for fun for several series. still not convinced by his captaincy but lack of alternatives means there is no obvious alternative. Didn't see much of the morning session as was at the park with the kids but during the lunch interval they were questioning Cook having a 3rd man instead of an extra catcher when NZ were 12-3. It's easy to be positive when the opposition are 5 down and have no chance of winning. A lot more difficult to set a competitive declaration total and attack from the start. This isn't purely a criticism of Cook as I'm sure it's a management team decision.

Didn't see either of Lyth's innings so no idea of whether he is international quality or not. Would have liked to see Hales given in a go in test cricket but need to stick with Lyth and give him a chance now he's been selected. I'm as critical of England as anyone but can't see any obvious changes to the top 6 at present.

The win wasn't solely down to poor NZ batting although that did play a part.

Stokes didn't "rip through the middle order". He took two wickets in two balls that turned things in our favour and did bowl very well in the 2nd innings. With a bit more luck his bowling figures in the 1st innings would have been a lot better as well.

There are no obvious changes that could be made to the current team, unless a miracle spinner can be found in the next few weeks, and they have done very well to win this match from being 8-1 with the bookies after the 2nd day but let's not get carried away and think that everything is great after just one match.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The commentators spent half hour trying to find something to slate Cook about - they have nailed their colours to the mast

Sad state when the opposition captain is more positive about England than the pundits and fans

 

[Dan2501]

Trevor Bayliss confirmed as England coach. Looking forward to see if he brings anything new to the side, or has any ideas in regards to the short forms of the game. Exciting times for English Cricket!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Trevor Bayliss confirmed as England coach. Looking forward to see if he brings anything new to the side, or has any ideas in regards to the short forms of the game. Exciting times for English Cricket!

Has done very well for ODI and T20 teams - got a good Shield record - worked well with Farbrace in the past

Seems at first look that they have looked at his ODI record which is good and hopefully can develop the longer game as well - still don't think it's right for us to have an Aussie in charge

 

[Dan2501]

I'm not really bothered what nationality he is, as long as he makes us as good as we can be. The players are there to be a good One Day team, they just need to pick them, and be coached into the correct way of thinking, to be encouraged to have no fear. Excited to see how he gets on and what he brings to the side!

In regards to the One Day team, who would you pick? Personally, I would go with:

Hales
Ali
Stokes
Taylor
Root *
Buttler
Billings +
Jordan
Tredwell
Wood
Anderson

Give Stokes license and responsibility at number 3, same with Buttler at 6. Let him focus on his batting in One Dayers and give the gloves to the impressive Billings. The side has depth in batting with Jordan at 8, but also depth in bowling with Anderson, Wood, Jordan, Stokes, Tredwell and Ali all front-line bowling options. I would have KP at 4, but I'm being realistic, that isn't happening anytime soon, so we have to move on without him, and Taylor is a very capable top-order bat. Just needs to be given confidence that his place is secure, so he can play the free-flowing, attacking game he plays for Notts. Root also has to be given the captaincy, he's the natural successor to Cook in the Test format, so should be given the chance to impress in Limited Overs cricket. Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Has done very well for ODI and T20 teams - got a good Shield record - worked well with Farbrace in the past

Seems at first look that they have looked at his ODI record which is good and hopefully can develop the longer game as well - still don't think it's right for us to have an Aussie in charge

We have had two Zimbabweans so why not an Aussie after all there is hardly a queue of likely English candidates.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We have had two Zimbabweans so why not an Aussie after all there is hardly a queue of likely English candidates.

because the rivalry between Australia and England is a touch different the between England and Zimbabwe

Don't think an Aussie should ever been in charge of the England team just I have no doubt Australie would never appoint an Englishman

 

[Deleted member 18588]

because the rivalry between Australia and England is a touch different the between England and Zimbabwe

Don't think an Aussie should ever been in charge of the England team just I have no doubt Australie would never appoint an Englishman

But he is coach not captain or a player. Motivational side of preparation for cricket, particularly five day Tests, is different to football and the coach's role is entirely different to the England football manager.

The coach is a facilitator rather than a motivator and is not really in charge of the team. That is the captain's role.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But he is coach not captain or a player. Motivational side of preparation for cricket, particularly five day Tests, is different to football and the coach's role is entirely different to the England football manager.

The coach is a facilitator rather than a motivator and is not really in charge of the team. That is the captain's role.

Again - doesn't change my opinion that I don't believe an Aussie should be in charge of the England cricket team - Australia would never appoint someone from England

 

[Dan2501]

David Saker has been involved in the England set-up for quite a while, he's an Aussie, as was Troy Cooley who did a really good job as bowling coach. I'm not worried about him being Australian. Doesn't really matter, he's a professional, he's going to try and make England as good as he possibly can.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Again - doesn't change my opinion that I don't believe an Aussie should be in charge of the England cricket team - Australia would never appoint someone from England

You are missing the point.

He will not be in charge of the England team. That is the job of the captain.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So you drop Bell who scored 143 against Windies last month, and replace him with who ? he averages 45 for England, is certainly not too old, and just happens to have quite a good record against Australia at home.

you seem to be knocking England players, but not coming up with any alternatives. we beat a decent New Zealand team, but you want to change half the team. Yes we are struggling for a spinner, but there are not any alternatives. Rashid could not get in the team in the Windies which seems to indicate he was bowling poorly in practice.

Take out the Bell century and look at his last 7-8 test innings other than that. Hardly a man on the top of his game

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Take out the Bell century and look at his last 7-8 test innings other than that. Hardly a man on the top of his game

OK. As Rich said who is your nominated alternative?

 

[gazr99]

As I know this thread will be seen by cricket fans, former South Africa all-rounder Andrew Hall is hosting a pre-ashes dinner to celebrate his career in Northampton on 3rd July. Details in the picture below