Competition Mens Whites v's Ladies Red?!

[mikseymono]

Hi team......

So, been playing a few comps now at new club. I'm off the whites, index circa 6, against my fellow men. It also transpires we have a lady, off 3.0, who play off the ladies red tees. For the Premier/brut/gros prize she is also included as she would always win the brut prize for the ladies..I think the next best is 12 or so.......

Is it me or is this a bit strange? Not wanting to be sour grapes........she beat me..........but its not the same game off the forward tees.....does this happen at your club?

M

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Her handicap is based off those red tees

And yep they can play in the same Comp and off different tees , you can even have men off the yellow tees in the same Comp

All you need to is add or subtract the correct amount of shots based on which Comp it is ( medal or Stableford) and the relevant pars and sss

 

[mikseymono]

OK...well there you go...every day is a school day.........when you say add or subtract shots...not sure what you mean as this this is a stroke play comp so nothing to add or subtract...but maybe I'm wrong!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

OK...well there you go...every day is a school day.........when you say add or subtract shots...not sure what you mean as this this is a stroke play comp so nothing to add or subtract...but maybe I'm wrong!

When playing in comps where people play of differing tees for results purposes only scores get extra shots or shots taken off

So for example

If you played at a course that had a par of 71 with a SSS of 70 on the whites and then off the reds a SSS of 73

For Medal competition people playing of the red tees would get 3 extra shots add to their HC to be then taken off their gross score to give their adjusted nett score

If playing in a Stableford they would get the difference between the par and SSS - so in this case 1 extra shot ( or point on their score )

Hope that explains

 

[rulie]

Why are handicaps involved in a gross stroke play competition?

 

[Colin L]

Why are handicaps involved in a gross stroke play competition?

They're not, but if if there is a difference between the relative difficulty of playing off one set of tees and another as shown in the Standard Scratch Score of each, that difference needs to be taken into account in determining winners in a mixed tee competition whether scratch or handicap. To my mind, it's not really a handicapping matter - although effectively applied as such. It's a flat-rate stroke adjustment for everone who is playing the more difficult course whatever their individual playing ability is and is used only for determining winners. It is disregarded for handicap adjustments.

 

[Colin L]

When playing in comps where people play of differing tees for results purposes only scores get extra shots or shots taken off

So for example

If you played at a course that had a par of 71 with a SSS of 70 on the whites and then off the reds a SSS of 73

For Medal competition people playing of the red tees would get 3 extra shots add to their HC to be then taken off their gross score to give their adjusted nett score

If playing in a Stableford they would get the difference between the par and SSS - so in this case 1 extra shot ( or point on their score )

Hope that explains

It doesn't quite explain the stableford calculation which is based on the relative number of points the players would score if they played to handicap on their particular course. A par of 71 and SSS of 70 means you would score 37 points if you played to handicap on that course (Par-SSS= +1). We need to know the par for the red course to make the same calculation for the player on the red course. If there is a difference in the number of points the players would make if playing to handicap , an adjustment is made in favour of the player who would be making the lower number of points. In your illustration, if the par for the red course were 72, the player would make 35 points if playing to handicap (Par-SSS = -1) and so would receive a 2 point allowance.

 

[rulie]

I thought the original post was about gross stroke play, not net and not Stableford. How would gross stroke play be handled by CONGU?

 

[rulefan]

See Appendix O in the CONGU manual.

 

[duncan mackie]

As the OP is in an EGA region he's going to be using the detail in section 3.9 of their manual rather than a CONGU one....

The good news is that they are similar in their principles although different in application (because of the handicap index/playing handicap and par/CR bits).

Does raise an almost philosophical question as to whether, and why, you would make any adjustments in a gross comp - after all a +5 player is already on level terms with a 5 so why worry about any other elements at all! However, run in association with a net event the baggage is already there so I suspect it's going to get used.

 

[Colin L]

I thought the original post was about gross stroke play, not net and not Stableford. How would gross stroke play be handled by CONGU?

Sorry, I didn't explain it clearly enough in #6.

If there is a difference between the Standard Scratch Scores (SSS) off different sets of tees that difference has nothing really to do with handicaps. Handicaps are about levelling differences between the playing abilities of different players whilst this is about levelling the difference between two courses as would be experienced by one player - the standard scratch player - as do your Course Ratings. An adjustment is made to compensate for any difference between the SSS off different sets of tees. Say it is 2 strokes, the players who compete on the more difficult course receive an allowance of 2 strokes off their gross score while the others play off scratch. Again, that is only for determining competition winners.

 

[mikseymono]

all a bit beyond me really...........guess I'll have to find out what the standard scratch is first......and go from there...

 

[mikseymono]

OK..so SSS for Men off the white is 70.6...the slope is 130..for ladies off Blue it is 66.8......the slope is 126....what does this mean?..scenarios please!

Thanks,

M

 

[Colin L]

OK..so SSS for Men off the white is 70.6...the slope is 130..for ladies off Blue it is 66.8......the slope is 126....what does this mean?..scenarios please!

Thanks,

M

I see you are in France and will be playing under the European Golf Association handicap system. I doubt if it's worth finding out about the CONGU system, not least of all since it will be changing to the World Handicap System next year and then we will be talking the same handicapping language. If you are nonetheless curious, the Standard Scratch Score is our course rating but it is always a whole number. Next year we will be adjusting to changes such as Course Ratings expressed to one decimal place, the introduction of slope to our handicapping and the use of an averages to calculate a

 

[louise_a]

it would seem that men should get quite a few shots adjustment.

 

[duncan mackie]

OK..so SSS for Men off the white is 70.6...the slope is 130..for ladies off Blue it is 66.8......the slope is 126....what does this mean?..scenarios please!

Thanks,

M

You initially referenced the lady off Red - are these the ratings for the tees they compete from?

As I posted back in #10 your reference is section 3.9 of the EGA manual which gives you the formulae to make the appropriate calculations (which should of course be being done anyway).