Clubhead speed!

[bobmac]

You think that without changing technique at all, swinging slower hits it further? That defies physics.

Swinging slower might allow for a better technique, but in of itself, less speed does not increase distance, quite the opposite.

Bingo :thup:

There are 5 laws in golf, 5 things that directly influence the ball.
And you're right in saying an increase in swingspeed means an increase in ball speed IF ALL ELSE REMAINS EQUAL.
But in most cases, an increase in speed can have a detrimental affect on the other 4 laws.

Dont hit it harder, hit it better.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Timing dear boy, timing. If you follow cricket you will see someone like Joe Root punch a straight drive or cover drive like a bullet. No great swing of the arms, it is about transferring body weight at the correct time. Raw power works as well, see most of the current W. Indies 20-20 team, but body weight works just as well if not better. I suspect the same works for golf. If you get the timing and transfer right that will work better for many people than just arm strength.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Bingo :thup:

There are 5 laws in golf, 5 things that directly influence the ball.
And you're right in saying an increase in swingspeed means an increase in ball speed IF ALL ELSE REMAINS EQUAL.
But in most cases, an increase in speed can have a detrimental affect on the other 4 laws.

Dont hit it harder, hit it better.

Yes, we're in complete agreement. Improve technique first, then add speed if you can do so without sacrificing technique.

It's also often true that what feels like a slower swing does not equate to a lower clubhead speed.

The golf swing is perverse in its operation, so counterintuitive.

 

[bobmac]

Yes, we're in complete agreement. Improve technique first, then add speed if you can do so without sacrificing technique.

Some coaches disagree.
They prefer to get distance first then work out where its going.
Many ways to skin a ProV1

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Some coaches disagree.
They prefer to get distance first then work out where its going.
Many ways to skin a ProV1

Surely that's applied at the higher echelons of the game rather than for rank amateurs?

I can see how it makes sense if you're trying to reach the PGA Tour and you already have a pretty good technique, less so if your swing resembles an uncoordinated octopus with a bamboo cane.

I'm sure all coaches bag the quick wins first, so if there's a real technique problem that gets dealt with first?

 

[bobmac]

Surely that's applied at the higher echelons of the game rather than for rank amateurs?

No, especially amateurs and youngsters

 

[Ethan]

No, especially amateurs and youngsters

That has always been the generally taught philosophy. Easier to add control to distance than the reverse.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

No, especially amateurs and youngsters

What about the second half of my question though?

It must be in combination with technique, no?

I.e. yes, maximising distance and not worrying about direction/control, but hitting the ball along way still requires good technique. You've got to be hitting the middle of the club for a start and getting a good launch angle. Which is how this whole discussion started.

Or, are you saying that it's not distance that is prioritised at all, but simply clubhead speed?

(Actually, looking back at your post, you said distance not clubhead speed).

 

[Qwerty]

Start the downswing slow and accelerate rather than go at it from the top

This is a great tip and something I constantly have to remind myself of.

 

[Hosel Fade]

Bob- any SIMPLE drills for shallowing AoA?

hit balls off a massively exaggerated high tee. Might be difficult at your standard rangé though.

 

[Hosel Fade]

You think that without changing technique at all, swinging slower hits it further? That defies physics.

Swinging slower might allow for a better technique, but in of itself, less speed does not increase distance, quite the opposite.

Swing speed does not equal ball speed, depends where you strike it from with what AoA, path etc as well. Thats why the latest me and my golf video annoys me so much where they claim to find 60 yards through AoA with constant swing speed. The first ball is a rubbish strike which is at least 30 of the 60 yards they claim to have found.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Swing speed does not equal ball speed, depends where you strike it from with what AoA, path etc as well. Thats why the latest me and my golf video annoys me so much where they claim to find 60 yards through AoA with constant swing speed. The first ball is a rubbish strike which is at least 30 of the 60 yards they claim to have found.

Did someone say it did?

I think everyone agrees that hitting it better is more important than hitting it harder. But, if you can hit it better in combination with faster clubhead speed that's the real winner.

 

[Sats]

Kettlebell swings, clean and press, deadlift, squat, chins and dips - eat clean, stretch and you'll get physically able. Then ensure that you can deliver the club so get practicing.

I've currently got my swing speed up to 101.2mph and I get around 280 total in 'normal conditions'.

And if all else fails at least you'll look better!

 

[RobertB]

Recently been through changes to clubs (ignore profile below is Apex's and M2s) anyway on driver as this is from last week on trackman... my 915D2 + diamana 60 s was yielding 99mph and too much backspin...
A switch to a M2 and aldila combo 60.3.4 s brought it up to 104 mph and swapping to and fro results were repeatable... its not aerodynamics but more likely better / more efficient clubhead delivery with shaft....

 

[ger147]

Recently been through changes to clubs (ignore profile below is Apex's and M2s) anyway on driver as this is from last week on trackman... my 915D2 + diamana 60 s was yielding 99mph and too much backspin...
A switch to a M2 and aldila combo 60.3.4 s brought it up to 104 mph and swapping to and fro results were repeatable... its not aerodynamics but more likely better / more efficient clubhead delivery with shaft....

Assuming both shafts are OEM standard length, the M2 has a longer shaft than the 915 so that will add some speed.

 

[TheDoctor]

What are these changes? Can't work out why you would swing more efficiently but lose that much speed.

With my old swing before the lessons, I was coming over the top and had a negative angle of attack of something like -3 so was seeing the typical ballooning ball flight which then tailed off to the right with spin at over 4,400RPM

With the changes my pro has made, I am now swinging from the inside-out and at the end of the last lesson my average angle of attack was +6 degrees with some strikes being nearer +8, so my spin rate has dropped significantly, launch angle is much improved and therefore with a slower swing speed I am seeing better shots

The reason for the drop in swing speed is I am trying to get comfortable with the feeling of the changes that have been made - once I feel totally comfortable with the changes I can then build up the swing speed again

 

[karlcole]

With my old swing before the lessons, I was coming over the top and had a negative angle of attack of something like -3 so was seeing the typical ballooning ball flight which then tailed off to the right with spin at over 4,400RPM

With the changes my pro has made, I am now swinging from the inside-out and at the end of the last lesson my average angle of attack was +6 degrees with some strikes being nearer +8, so my spin rate has dropped significantly, launch angle is much improved and therefore with a slower swing speed I am seeing better shots

The reason for the drop in swing speed is I am trying to get comfortable with the feeling of the changes that have been made - once I feel totally comfortable with the changes I can then build up the swing speed again

This is exactly my problem how did he Chang you angle of arrack and swing path so drastically mate? Any drills?

 

[njrose51]

For me, my swing speed is built gradually. Slow take away, allowing a full shoulder turn, and then I start the downswing slowly as well before ramping up the speed and release. If I go too quickly from the get go, I end up in all sorts of trouble - out of sync, lifting head halfway on my downswing, topping, slicing etc etc. My final swing thought before take away is low and slow. You've just got to find what works for you based on sound technique and principles - grip, stance etc.

 

[RobertB]

Assuming both shafts are OEM standard length, the M2 has a longer shaft than the 915 so that will add some speed.

some but not all 5-6mph for the 1" max change

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I have been having some great fun, increasing my swing speed over the last few months (still a work in progress to be honest, with regards to speed and control)

As a bit of back ground, I started playing golf when I was late twenties as a guess for a few years but never managed to average once a week. Going back to then I reckon a was swinging mid-high eighties, as I could not carry 200 yards(I knew this as there was one hole on the course I played that caused me problems with that carry).

Basically stopped playing for over ten years and then came back to the game last year, happened to play the same course on a golf day and carried the ditch with an okay drive. And I thought WTF how can that have just happened, only thing that had changed was I was fitter then before(same clubs), also my son was almost hitting it as far as I do. So I reckoned I was swinging at 90ish.

This was last winter and so I started on my task.

Brought a speed swing radar(brilliant it is). With no ball I could swing a max of 97(average 94) and average 91 with a ball(confirmed on flightscope as well give or take a couple of mph)

Then started some overspeed practise. Basically this is swinging as hard as you can with a normal headed driver and with a headless club/shaft (with the headless one I do one arm swings as well). Only get to do it normally once a week at home. Things I have find is if I try to swing with the hips, I am a lot slower, the swing radar enables you to try things..

The results have been amazing. I can now max out at 119(average 108) with the driver with no ball and average 100 with a ball (not played that much and do not go to the range, so still not hit that many balls really). I think there is another 5mph to come, when I am hitting the ball, as the difference between the two is massive

Now to be honest, recently I am certainly struggling with the driver and not feeling the head and have got some weird random flights going on(no such problems with fairway woods/irons) unless I slow down, hopefully it will come.

I can tell the difference on the course without doubt when compared to last year, I now can reach our 9th par5 hole with two good shoots, which I could not before and my drives a lot of the time are already further down the fairway on all holes than last year(even with summer roll, which at the moment we don't have and I have a fairly low launch which is certainly costing my distance).

Hope that helps and best of luck.