Club V1 Problems

[Swango1980]

[1] Again why would the committee be chasing any GP score not entered? I sure as hell don't.
[2] They forget. Last year was a nightmare when remote scoring was introduced, we DQ'd scores of folk who couldn't be bothered/forgot to enter a score by 7pm the NEXT day.
[3] The opposite, allowing players to fill in their scores, effectively when they feel like it is creating another issue for the h'cap sec that simply doesn't need to be there

Yes technology breaks, our solution, you email us the card. Therefore on those rare occasions, there's a back up. Don't create another stress point to solve an issue of folks laziness

1. Because the Committee is responsible for chasing no returns, to try and ensure the score goes on the players handicap record. This will also lead to whatever disciplinary procedures that you have for repeat offenders who have no reasonable excuse.
2. They can just as easily forget to put in score immediately after round, especially for general play. Plus, the technical issues I have mentioned can also lead to player not immediately entering score.
3. What is the other issue? Who cares if they enter score 5 mins after round or 5 hours? As long as it is before midnight, handicap updated for next day.

 

[wjemather]

[1] Again why would the committee be chasing any GP score not entered? I sure as hell don't.

Handicap committees must ensure players fulfil their responsibilities, which includes returning all pre-registered GP round scores.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Handicap committees must ensure players fulfil their responsibilities, which includes returning all pre-registered GP round scores.

Nope, they get a penalty score from the system for not recording their score. There is no need for the HC to get involved. If someone keeps doing it then there is a time to get involved.

 

[Swango1980]

Nope, they get a penalty score from the system for not recording their score. There is no need for the HC to get involved. If someone keeps doing it then there is a time to get involved.

Nope, the system does not give them a penalty score (certainly not in England anyway). Not sure how it can, as the WHS manual requires different penalty scores to be applied for different scenarios. Takes a human to determine most appropriate one.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

1. Because the Committee is responsible for chasing no returns, to try and ensure the score goes on the players handicap record. This will also lead to whatever disciplinary procedures that you have for repeat offenders who have no reasonable excuse.
2. They can just as easily forget to put in score immediately after round, especially for general play. Plus, the technical issues I have mentioned can also lead to player not immediately entering score.
3. What is the other issue? Who cares if they enter score 5 mins after round or 5 hours? As long as it is before midnight, handicap updated for next day.

1. Yup, in competitions, for GP scores players can suffer their penalty score, if they can;t be arsed, neither can I
2. Really? You're at the course, you've just finished your round, you registered for a GP score before you started. Hmm, there's something I should do now having scored all the way round, what would it be? Nope, it's not coming to me? [Wise up, you're being ridiculius to back up your stupid point]
3. Yup, who cares. Do it right away and then you won't have this petulant ranting to go through

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Nope, the system does not give them a penalty score (certainly not in England anyway). Not sure how it can, as the WHS manual requires different penalty scores to be applied for different scenarios. Takes a human to determine most appropriate one.

Yes it does. Register for a GP score and you don't post it, you get a penalty score.

 

[wjemather]

Nope, they get a penalty score from the system for not recording their score. There is no need for the HC to get involved. If someone keeps doing it then there is a time to get involved.

From CONGU's guidance, applicable throughout GB&I:

"G7.1b Applying a Penalty Score​

These are intended for use when the score for a player is not returned (in whatever format of score return the Committee direct). However, the Committee need to determine the reason for non-return as the Penalty Score process is generally aimed at those who deliberately fail to return a score, or for those who persistently refuse to return scores when required.​

The Committee should make reasonable efforts to find the score or, if not immediately available, attempt to identify the score of the player by other means (e.g. the marker score on another card)."​

There is no difference between a competition round and a general play round in this process.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

From CONGU's guidance, applicable throughout GB&I:

"G7.1b Applying a Penalty Score​

These are intended for use when the score for a player is not returned (in whatever format of score return the Committee direct). However, the Committee need to determine the reason for non-return as the Penalty Score process is generally aimed at those who deliberately fail to return a score, or for those who persistently refuse to return scores when required.​

The Committee should make reasonable efforts to find the score or, if not immediately available, attempt to identify the score of the player by other means (e.g. the marker score on another card)."​

There is no difference between a competition round and a general play round in this process.

I can assure you a penalty score is applied automatically overnight. The above is irrelevant, if someone starts a GP round and does not submit a score, they get a penalty score, we've had a couple. We don't have to take pro-active action.

 

[wjemather]

I can assure you a penalty score is applied automatically overnight. The above is irrelevant, if someone starts a GP round and does not submit a score, they get a penalty score, we've had a couple. We don't have to take pro-active action.

Whether the SG system applies PS automatically is not the issue - I know it does (in my view it shouldn't as it pre-empts the reason for non-return). Rule 7.1b (and CONGU's guidance on it) still applies; if SG are advising otherwise, they are failing in their responsibilities by disregarding the rules and their own (via CONGU) advice. Handicap committees are also bound by other requirements of WHS (including #42). By ignoring this, you are also failing in your responsibilities.

 

[Swango1980]

I can assure you a penalty score is applied automatically overnight. The above is irrelevant, if someone starts a GP round and does not submit a score, they get a penalty score, we've had a couple. We don't have to take pro-active action.

The confusion here is that SG does it automatically. In England, it does not. I am in England, therefore Committee members need to chase the player.

As wjemether says, it is up to Committee to decide what that penalty score is. So, it appears the SG software ignores this advice. If a player fails to return a GP round, what penalty score does it give?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

The confusion here is that SG does it automatically. In England, it does not. I am in England, therefore Committee members need to chase the player.

As wjemether says, it is up to Committee to decide what that penalty score is. So, it appears the SG software ignores this advice. If a player fails to return a GP round, what penalty score does it give?

From memory way up in the hundreds, I think it may be course rating +54 as 124 sticks in my memory.

I should clarify we've deleted a couple of penalty scores, when we've been made aware of the reasons for so doing, so we're not doing nothing, and if we have a repeat offender we will chase them up, but so far that's not been the case

 

[Swango1980]

From memory way up in the hundreds, I think it may be course rating +54 as 124 sticks in my memory.

I should clarify we've deleted a couple of penalty scores, when we've been made aware of the reasons for so doing, so we're not doing nothing, and if we have a repeat offender we will chase them up, but so far that's not been the case

Interesting. Given that such a high penalty score (i.e. a score equal to a players worst in their last 20, not way up in the hundreds necessarily) is only recommended for a player who No Returns when the reason is they want to keep their handicap low. Most No Returns, I am guessing, are down to forgetfulness. The recommendation is to provide a penalty score that would be equivalent of them playing to their Index (which actually results in a small Index reduction a lot of the time, as this obviously ends up in their top 8, depending on what score they lose).

So, it seems to me that this automatic penalty score goes very much against the guidance in most cases.

Furthermore, I have no doubt there will be Committees who simply rely that the software is doing the right thing, and just leave it to it's own devices. It will be interesting if there is a situation out there where a player, wanting to keep a high handicap, simply does not return good scores. Sure, Committees need a slap on the wrist for not fulfilling their duties, but it goes to show that WHS requires Committees to be much more on the ball in terms of general play golf. A situation that would not have existed pre-WHS as scores only ever touched a players record once the Committee verified it was acceptable.

 

[Old Skier]

Interesting. Given that such a high penalty score (i.e. a score equal to a players worst in their last 20, not way up in the hundreds necessarily) is only recommended for a player who No Returns when the reason is they want to keep their handicap low. Most No Returns, I am guessing, are down to forgetfulness. The recommendation is to provide a penalty score that would be equivalent of them playing to their Index (which actually results in a small Index reduction a lot of the time, as this obviously ends up in their top 8, depending on what score they lose).

So, it seems to me that this automatic penalty score goes very much against the guidance in most cases.

Furthermore, I have no doubt there will be Committees who simply rely that the software is doing the right thing, and just leave it to it's own devices. It will be interesting if there is a situation out there where a player, wanting to keep a high handicap, simply does not return good scores. Sure, Committees need a slap on the wrist for not fulfilling their duties, but it goes to show that WHS requires Committees to be much more on the ball in terms of general play golf. A situation that would not have existed pre-WHS as scores only ever touched a players record once the Committee verified it was acceptable.

I really cannot believe any software gives such a screwed penalty that would result in someone's HC I going up at an alarming rate.

I think the poster may have this wrong however it is another authority so anything is possible.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I really cannot believe any software gives such a screwed penalty that would result in someone's HC I going up at an alarming rate.

I think the poster may have this wrong however it is another authority so anything is possible.

Cheers mate

I did have it wrong, it's 125 that they were given, not 124, score differential of 57.2. This is the last penalty score we had.