Club V1 Problems

[Swango1980]

I see your bold words but can anyone else confirm it. I'm sure my wife entered a score the next day.

I've not personally tried it (I always enter my score on the same day)

However, a number of members looked to have no returns after pre-registering, yet on the next day they signed in and entered a score straight after. It turns out they did this because they could not enter yesterday's score without signing in again

 

[wjemather]

I see your bold words but can anyone else confirm it. I'm sure my wife entered a score the next day.

I'm fairly sure HDID only allows score entry on the day for casual/gp rounds; however the score entry window for competitions is configured in ClubV1, so can be set to days later if so desired.

 

[rulefan]

I'm fairly sure HDID only allows score entry on the day for casual/gp rounds; however the score entry window for competitions is configured in ClubV1, so can be set to days later if so desired.

Thanks. My wife can't remember.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I've not personally tried it (I always enter my score on the same day)

However, a number of members looked to have no returns after pre-registering, yet on the next day they signed in and entered a score straight after. It turns out they did this because they could not enter yesterday's score without signing in again

Last year before WHS you could enter scores the next day.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Howdidido, again as far as I am aware, only allows Score Entry on the same day as the round is played. It just does not matter where you are when you enter that score. Clearly, if a player fails to do that, then it is a No Return and the Committee need to chase the player to get that score (which I had to do regularly as handicap secretary)

When there were no Apps, do you mean before WHS? Players would generally simply throw it in the box at the club after round, or may bring it home and submit it a few days later. There was no real issue with this, as there was no need for it to be entered before midnight. The only issue, of course, is if they subsequently played in a competition before handing in a supplementary score that would have given them a cut. But, given so few cards were really ever handed in back in those days, I never remember this being an issue. And, if it was, then it would need to be dealt with accordingly.

If you were talking about a competition pre WHS, then if a player took their card home it would be a No Return and DQ from the comp.

The issue with demanding the score be entered at the club is that, if the player is unable to (in a rush, internet connection down or poor, forgets, etc), then they will simply be unable to enter the score. That is going to cause a lot of headaches, with Committees having to constantly chase players for scores. If they can enter it at home, at least it gives them ample time to submit those scores before midnight.

The one advantage I can see of having to be near the course for both pre reg and score entry is that it should normally ensure players have done both correctly. Only having to be near the course to pre-reg means that a player could technically do this after their round, go home and enter their score 3 or 4 hours later. Anyone checking these after would be non the wiser, unless they actually knew when the player teed off.

Seriously? You had no issue with competitions remaining open for days while players decided whether they would bother their arse? That's literally a DQ for undue delay.

Second bold, then hand the card in and enter it on the clubhouse terminal. You've then highlighted exactly the issue if players *don't* present their scores immediately, and why geolocation is a good thing, as I said, which was exactly our experience last year.

 

[Swango1980]

Seriously? You had no issue with competitions remaining open for days while players decided whether they would bother their arse? That's literally a DQ for undue delay.

Second bold, then hand the card in and enter it on the clubhouse terminal. You've then highlighted exactly the issue if players *don't* present their scores immediately, and why geolocation is a good thing, as I said, which was exactly our experience last year.

I am specifically talking about general play rounds, not competitions.

Your second point was clearly not possible in my case. If you read back to my first post, club house was closed.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I am specifically talking about general play rounds, not competitions.

Your second point was clearly not possible in my case. If you read back to my first post, club house was closed.

OK, but same thing, your score affects PCC, so of course people need to be forced to enter on the day, or too many will do as you do. How does the system work otherwise?

 

[Swango1980]

OK, but same thing, your score affects PCC, so of course people need to be forced to enter on the day, or too many will do as you do. How does the system work otherwise?

I think you are missing my point. My intention was to fully enter my scores on the same day. However, if you stop players entering scores anywhere except near the course, then you remove the opportunity for them to enter the score later in the day once they leave the course. Therefore, you are more likely to get MORE people not entering their score on the same day, not less. It also means you will get more people contacting the handicap secretary to enter their scores for them once they get home. Others will not, so you will put more pressure on the handicap sec contacting players who have NRed.

You basically remove a layer of flexibility for the player as soon as they can no longer enter their score anywhere that is not close to the course. Personally, I'd like to see the tech be set up to:

• Allow Player to Sign In for round (I don't mind this being restricted to being near course, I guess it stops people signing in at home and never playing, though hopefully many out there would not de that pure cheating of the system)
• Allow Player to enter their score after the round, in any location
• Send notification reminders at certain times if they have signed in, but failed to return their score

I'd also like to see a Warning in the Club Systems when a score is manually entered by the club committee, but the player had already entered a score on the same day (especially if the hole scores generally tie up). This would stop duplicate entries where both the player and committee enter the same score twice. I know this should not happen if Committee properly check the score has already been entered. However, it is clear very many players at my new club have duplicate entries which could have been avoided by a simple safety net.

 

[Old Skier]

Duplicate entry of scores is easily sorted, just write “Score Entered“ on the card.

 

[rulefan]

• 1) Allow Player to enter their score after the round, in any location
• 2) Send notification reminders at certain times if they have signed in, but failed to return their score

1) I thought that V1/HDHD already provided that facility
2) Isn't there a report in V1 available for the committee?

 

[Old Skier]

1) I thought that V1/HDHD already provided that facility
2) Isn't there a report in V1 available for the committee?

1. Facility via PSI if home or HDID or EG app
2. Yes

 

[wjemather]

Duplicate entry of scores is easily sorted, just write “Score Entered“ on the card.

This would not stop one of our members, who has entered the same score 3 times this week (twice on the same day). It's the second time he's managed to do this having entered one score 4 times over the course of a couple of weeks earlier this year.

 

[Swango1980]

Duplicate entry of scores is easily sorted, just write “Score Entered“ on the card.

That is not fool proof. When I was handicap sec, not one player did that. If instructed, I'd imagine many would still not do it. Especially as many still don't include much more basic info like tees, date, etc

 

[Swango1980]

1) I thought that V1/HDHD already provided that facility
2) Isn't there a report in V1 available for the committee?

1. It does, but my discussion previous to this was discussing whether or not this was useful (my argument it was)
2. It does, but the notification to the player reduces the number of No Returns the Committee need to chase up.

 

[rulefan]

2. It does, but the notification to the player reduces the number of No Returns the Committee need to chase up.

Point taken

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I think you are missing my point. My intention was to fully enter my scores on the same day. However, if you stop players entering scores anywhere except near the course, then you remove the opportunity for them to enter the score later in the day once they leave the course. Therefore, you are more likely to get MORE people not entering their score on the same day, not less. It also means you will get more people contacting the handicap secretary to enter their scores for them once they get home. Others will not, so you will put more pressure on the handicap sec contacting players who have NRed.

You basically remove a layer of flexibility for the player as soon as they can no longer enter their score anywhere that is not close to the course. Personally, I'd like to see the tech be set up to:

• Allow Player to Sign In for round (I don't mind this being restricted to being near course, I guess it stops people signing in at home and never playing, though hopefully many out there would not de that pure cheating of the system)
• Allow Player to enter their score after the round, in any location
• Send notification reminders at certain times if they have signed in, but failed to return their score

I'd also like to see a Warning in the Club Systems when a score is manually entered by the club committee, but the player had already entered a score on the same day (especially if the hole scores generally tie up). This would stop duplicate entries where both the player and committee enter the same score twice. I know this should not happen if Committee properly check the score has already been entered. However, it is clear very many players at my new club have duplicate entries which could have been avoided by a simple safety net.

No I get your point entirely.

As I've said, last year we used HDID, entry of scores from anywhere, it was a nightmare chasing down people who hadn;t entered a score and waiting for people to enter their scores.

This year we're on GPS enabled SG app, guess what, everyone enters their scores after their rounds and we haven't had an issue (other than the crappy SG app which wouldn;t be solved by a location change).

Why is this "flexibility" required? You finish your round, you submit your score, it's worked for hundreds of years, but now that you can do it from your phone you should hold up return of scores by being able to do it from home? I don't think so. In fact undue delay of returning scores is a Dq offence in itself. Flexibility is the last thing needed here, we had a year of it, it was terrible.

 

[Swango1980]

No I get your point entirely.

As I've said, last year we used HDID, entry of scores from anywhere, it was a nightmare chasing down people who hadn;t entered a score and waiting for people to enter their scores.

This year we're on GPS enabled SG app, guess what, everyone enters their scores after their rounds and we haven't had an issue (other than the crappy SG app which wouldn;t be solved by a location change).

Why is this "flexibility" required? You finish your round, you submit your score, it's worked for hundreds of years, but now that you can do it from your phone you should hold up return of scores by being able to do it from home? I don't think so. In fact undue delay of returning scores is a Dq offence in itself. Flexibility is the last thing needed here, we had a year of it, it was terrible.

You've just proved you've missed my point. You are talking about competitions. I am not. I'm talking about returning cards for handicap, particularly general play.

For competitions, committees should set specific deadlines to ensure prompt return or scores.

What happens if a player finishes their round, no PSI available and no access to phone (maybe battery died or no internet connection). If only they could enter the score electronically at home (as they can on howdidido). Yet you wish to remove that possibility.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

You've just proved you've missed my point. You are talking about competitions. I am not. I'm talking about returning cards for handicap, particularly general play.

For competitions, committees should set specific deadlines to ensure prompt return or scores.

What happens if a player finishes their round, no PSI available and no access to phone (maybe battery died or no internet connection). If only they could enter the score electronically at home (as they can on howdidido). Yet you wish to remove that possibility.

Sorry, you talked about "NR'd", how in any way can you NR a GP score? The handicap sec (me for instance) is not contacting anyone that gets a penalty score, if you can't be bothered to follow the process, not my concern, it's not a competitive round and I'm not in the least worried about your penalty score.


But, Yes, because you can't switch GPS off and on like that. And they have to enter by midnight, if folks couldn't do it for competitions, how on earth do you expect them to for GP?

Make it simple, you finish your round, you can't leave the site until your score is entered. There is nothing difficult or confusing about that.

 

[Swango1980]

Yes, because you can't switch GPS off and on like that. And they have to enter by midnight, if folks couldn't do it for competitions, how on earth do you expect them to for GP?

Make it simple, you finish your round, you can't leave the site until your score is entered. There is nothing difficult or confusing about that.

Simple, yes. Too simple, and creating another hurdle for players and Committee, when players are unable to enter scores on site for technical reasons and Committee need to chase players for no returns, or respond to members needing their assistance.

An issue that clearly exists if you have read other posts on this forum. Allowing the player to post the score at home goes a long way to solving that issue. I never said anything about players inputting scores a day or more after the round, simply that they can enter score later that day. What is wrong with that?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Simple, yes. Too simple, and creating another hurdle for players and Committee[3], when players are unable to enter scores on site for technical reasons and Committee need to chase players for no returns[1], or respond to members needing their assistance.

An issue that clearly exists if you have read other posts on this forum. Allowing the player to post the score at home goes a long way to solving that issue. I never said anything about players inputting scores a day or more after the round, simply that they can enter score later that day. What is wrong with that[2]?

[1] Again why would the committee be chasing any GP score not entered? I sure as hell don't.
[2] They forget. Last year was a nightmare when remote scoring was introduced, we DQ'd scores of folk who couldn't be bothered/forgot to enter a score by 7pm the NEXT day.
[3] The opposite, allowing players to fill in their scores, effectively when they feel like it is creating another issue for the h'cap sec that simply doesn't need to be there

Yes technology breaks, our solution, you email us the card. Therefore on those rare occasions, there's a back up. Don't create another stress point to solve an issue of folks laziness