Chris Tappin

Agreeing to change a plea does not sit right with me regardless. If he's innocent and he knows he his then why not fight it.

Ok it'll cost him a few ££££ but surely it's worth sacrificing everything you've got to prove you was innocent.

Only Mr Tappin knows truly if he is innocent.
 
I'm sure that , given a level playing field, Mr Tappin would prefer to plead not guilty and fight the case to the best of his ability.

However the real world kicks in, it's a corrupt system that is rotten to the core
The only realistic chance he has of returning home anytime soon is to plead guilty under a plea bargain agreement, his pride will suffer as a result, but at least he will be home before too long.

The argument here isn't about guilty or innocent... It's about a flawed system that makes it attractive for innocent men to plead guilty, because the ramifications of pleading innocent are too much to bear

Fragger
 
PhilTheFragger said:
I'm sure that , given a level playing field, Mr Tappin would prefer to plead not guilty and fight the case to the best of his ability.

However the real world kicks in, it's a corrupt system that is rotten to the core
The only realistic chance he has of returning home anytime soon is to plead guilty under a plea bargain agreement, his pride will suffer as a result, but at least he will be home before too long.

The argument here isn't about guilty or innocent... It's about a flawed system that makes it attractive for innocent men to plead guilty, because the ramifications of pleading innocent are too much to bear

Fragger
Click to expand...

Regardless of how corrupt the system is, admitting to a crime you've not committed goes against the pale IMO.

Having a criminal record of this magnitude will do him no favours.
 
At his age I cant see that the criminal record is that relevant.

Put yourself in his shoes, you are 5,000 miles from home, your wife is ill and can't travel to see you. You can either choose A and be home in a year or two 100% or you can roll the dice choose B and hope to get a fair hearing in a foreign country (which has already had you extradited without a hearing). Even if you think you are a 90% chance to be proven innocent would you roll the dice knowing the other 10% means you spend the rest of your life in an american jail and probably never see your wife again

When you look at it like that admitting to being guilty of something you didnt do surely becomes a no-brainer. Horrible situation and hope it is resolved for the best as soon as possible.
 
If the parts had reached their intended customer and were now being used to threaten our shipping and troups off the straits of Hormuz would we be quite so supportive of Mr Tappin. If your are happy to do business in any country, never mind our greatest ally the USA, you should be willing to abide by its laws and face its courts.
 
You dont plead guilty if you are innocent. I dont care what what the outcome would be but I personally would never plead guilty to something i had not done.
 
Bomber69 said:
Just been catching up on all this and from what I have read the guy is guilty and deserves everything that comes his way.
Click to expand...

Don't know how true that is but if your colleague can provide evidence that you had known ties to Iran then although it's not a guaranteed conclusion of guilt it certainly looks more shady than plain innocent.

Never understood how if you're FOUND guilty you face up to 35 YEARS in jail but if you SAY you're guilty you face 33 MONTHS :confused:

Is that like saying you murdered someone but only get 3 years as you admitted to it?
 
hangover said:
You dont plead guilty if you are innocent. I dont care what what the outcome would be but I personally would never plead guilty to something i had not done.
Click to expand...

Bomber69 said:
Just been catching up on all this and from what I have read the guy is guilty and deserves everything that comes his way.
Click to expand...


I know that we are in danger of standing foursquare behind Chris Tappin, not least because of the connection on this magazine with his son Neil, but, the fact is that many many people who have done nothing wrong end up plea bargaining in the USA as the risk of being wrongly convicted brings enormously disproportionate sentences as well as almost certain bankruptcy as well as a wait for a court hearing that can be longer than the plea bargain sentence.

It ought to be remembered that he did not actually commit any physical crime, as the operation by the USA was a "set up" by their federal authorities and merely a sting. They did not actually move so much as a Duracell AA battery as the batteries that Tappin is acused of shipping to Iran via Holland (I think) did not exist in reality and its really not know by you, or me, whether he really would have knowingly moved illegal items in the manner he is accused of. That essentially is the problem in the USA - they get their convictions because most people really can't do anything other than accept a plea bargain!
 
hangover said:
You dont plead guilty if you are innocent. I dont care what what the outcome would be but I personally would never plead guilty to something i had not done.
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone can honestly say that until they are in the position to have to do it or not.


Bomber69 said:
Just been catching up on all this and from what I have read the guy is guilty and deserves everything that comes his way.
Click to expand...

And that's part of the problem with all stories like this - we don't know all the facts and we never will. He may be guilty, he may not. But until I know all the facts I can't make a judgement
 
Imurg said:
I don't think anyone can honestly say that until they are in the position to have to do it or not.




And that's part of the problem with all stories like this - we don't know all the facts and we never will. He may be guilty, he may not. But until I know all the facts I can't make a judgement
Click to expand...


Totally agree with this. There's a load of self-righteous supposition in this thread, about how people would fight their innocence and he must be guilty because of the guilty plea. The only thing I can be sure of is that if I was faced with the prospect of a long costly court battle, with the dice loaded against me, and the prospect of the rest of my life in prison, I'd take the offer of a bargain. Give me 33 months in a UK prison than that alternative any day.
 
chrisd said:
It ought to be remembered that he did not actually commit any physical crime, as the operation by the USA was a "set up" by their federal authorities and merely a sting. They did not actually move so much as a Duracell AA battery as the batteries that Tappin is acused of shipping to Iran via Holland (I think) did not exist in reality and its really not know by you, or me, whether he really would have knowingly moved illegal items in the manner he is accused of. That essentially is the problem in the USA - they get their convictions because most people really can't do anything other than accept a plea bargain!
Click to expand...

Do we have the full details on the sting op? Did they contact Mr Tappin out of the blue personally, or just a random company to see what happens - or were did they have info on previous dealings? Did they actually say they wanted to ship these "batteries" to Iran or Holland? Was the final destination made known prior to the arrangement? What was the original request to ship? Was it obvious that it was an illegal transaction, or intending to be an illegal transaction? So many questions that I don't have the answer for. The only details I know of are what has been in the news,and those themselves can be selectively chosen at that.

I don't have any idea whether he is guilty or not, nor am I convinced he should be judged (although he will be) on the fact that he has pleaded guilty in order to reduce the sentence. It is however very easy to judge on the little we do know and many people make those decisions all too quickly sometimes....
 
Quote
""Mr. Tappin stated under oath that he was guilty of aiding the attempted export to Iran of sensitive military equipment," Pitman said in a statement. "In so doing, the defendant put at risk the national security of the United States and its allies by trying to sell to Iran the batteries that make the Hawk Missiles operational."


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/01/uk-usa-britain-iran-idUKBRE8A01LD20121101
 
Yerman said:
Quote
""Mr. Tappin stated under oath that he was guilty of aiding the attempted export to Iran of sensitive military equipment," Pitman said in a statement. "In so doing, the defendant put at risk the national security of the United States and its allies by trying to sell to Iran the batteries that make the Hawk Missiles operational."


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/01/uk-usa-britain-iran-idUKBRE8A01LD20121101
Click to expand...

Err yes that what happens when you plead guilty, so its all official and the lawyers get paid

He cant say" Guilty as charged mlud, by the way im only saying it to get a lighter sentence, i didnt really do it"

Do you believe everything that you read in the papers or see on TV

Fragger
 
PhilTheFragger said:
Err yes that what happens when you plead guilty, so its all official and the lawyers get paid

He cant say" Guilty as charged mlud, by the way im only saying it to get a lighter sentence, i didnt really do it"

Do you believe everything that you read in the papers or see on TV

Fragger
Click to expand...


After that top 100 I also don't believe everything I read in GM either!


:whistle:
 
therod said:
Totally agree with this. There's a load of self-righteous supposition in this thread, about how people would fight their innocence and he must be guilty because of the guilty plea. The only thing I can be sure of is that if I was faced with the prospect of a long costly court battle, with the dice loaded against me, and the prospect of the rest of my life in prison, I'd take the offer of a bargain. Give me 33 months in a UK prison than that alternative any day.
Click to expand...

Put like that, I would have pleaded guilty too if I were in his shoes.

By the way sentencing is later today.
 
I've never ever posted in any of these Tappin threads and the reason being how would you feel if people were discussing your father over the forum you worked for?

Very crass.

Only Mr Tappin Snr knows the truth.
 
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