Cheats

[bobmac]

Not wanting to hijack the other 'Bandit' thread
In that thread I read the following...

Being a bandit is about artificially keeping your handicap high and avoiding cuts so you can comfortably shoot 8 under and walk off with a big prize.

The issue is the element of artificially keeping your handicap high

A bandit is someone who deliberately keeps their handicap high to scoop prizes in the big comps and opens

So does that mean a bandit is actually a nicer name for a cheat ?

I thought a bandit was someone who's h/cap is too high as the system hasn't caught up with them yet or someone who has just had a good day ?

Surely that's different from being a pot hunter ?

 

[daveyc2k2]

I agree bob. I think the term bandit is just banter and a way to take the mickey out of people.

However the explanations mentioned above are clearly cheats.

 

[bladeplayer]

Sorry Bob to me Bandit does = Cheat yea ..... pulling or missing on purpose is the same as putting in 7 when you had a 5 or vice verca.. either way its not a true & honest reflection of your ability .. so to me its cheating ..

 

[SGC001]

If someone is intenionally keeping their handicap high then...

They're not breaking any rules so I don't put them in the same category as those with say leather wedges.

I guess I see it as kind of gaming the system and believe it might be similar to horse racing (don't know much about horse racing) where it's not maybe in the owners interst to have the horse be carrying too much weight for the big comps.

However, I believe the idea of golf should be to get as low as you can, so am not in favour of it and I might be tempted to think of them as handicap cheats as opposed to just cheats.

I'd probably think of those whose handicaps haven't caught up with them as improving golfers as opposed to bandits, along with anyone receiving full difference in matchplay; but that's another issue.

 

[GreiginFife]

@SGC001, if they do this for no other reason that to keep a high handicap then yes, but IMO if they then use this "system mitigation" for gain, i.e. prizes etc, then that's cheating.
Bandit to me is a banter term for ribbing your mates because they genuinely try to get their HC down but the system lag is keeping it artificially high and the do well as a result (but not intentionally), whereas someone that goes out to mitigate or bend the rules is a cheat. Sorry but I do see it quite black and white when it comes to rules & regs (my job kinda makes me that way).

 

[NWJocko]

I agree with the Fifer, "bandit" to me is generally used as a bit of a laugh. Someone preserving their handicap for the purposes of winning comps is a different kettle of fish.

I find it interesting the different outlooks on handicaps.

A large group of members at my club think they should be playing to handicap as a minimum (36 points in S'ford) and believe their handicap is there to give them a chance of winning things. They also don't want to get cut!!

The other group (which I am in) just want to play as well as I can which, if I achieve it, the handicap will come down. Not bothered about winning things if I'm honest, lowest gross score I can make is what I'm interested in.

 

[dave]

Bandit to me is more of a social ribbing, few of the younger guys keep stick on horseshoe moustaches in the bag for such occasions, pretty funny when you turn around and the the rest of your fourball all have horseshoe tashes. Keeping handicap deliberatly high for comps is at best bad form at worst cheating, the sort of expression as "im the best 15 handicap in the club by 5 shots" is just wrong

 

[Alex1975]

It has turned into banter but it is really about cheating!

 

[CrapHacker]

A bandit is someone who deliberately keeps their handicap high.

IE a cheat.

But of course it is used as a joke for someone who has that great round. It's funny because of the implication. If anyone actually thought the recipient was a proper bandit, then there wouldn't be the joviality about it.

EG if a mate goes out and pulls a one nighter, the next day he'd be called a tart and a whore. But if he actually earned his living selling sex I'd not joke about it, but sit down with him and have a good long chat about his life choices.

Remember kids, being a real bandit is a bad, bad thing.

 

[moogie]

If someone is intenionally keeping their handicap high then...

They're not breaking any rules so I don't put them in the same category as those with say leather wedges.

Sorry, Couldn't DISAGREE MORE
They Are CHEATING
And they are Hurting Others.........By deliberately keeping their cards high, and to do that u would have to return these in Comps, these cards have a DIRECT effect on everybody else Playing in those Comps, effecting STANDARD SCRATCH for the Comp

 

[One Planer]

just want to play as well as I can which, if I achieve it, the handicap will come down. Not bothered about winning things if I'm honest, lowest gross score I can make is what I'm interested in.

This is pretty much my view.

I didn't take up this game to stay at a high handicap, I want to improve year on year and get to a good, low handicap. I

f people seriously do this so they are in with a chance of winning they need to take a serously hard look at themselves.

 

[chrisd]

I know that I shall be in a minority of one. I am brassed off with the bandit comments, I play off 11 h/c and 2 weeks ago my partner and I beat 2 - 4h/cappers in a matchplay quarter final and several of the low handicap guys in the bar afterwards said that I was a bandit because I shot 1 under (gross) for the back 9. I reminded them that I play in every competition but that as I work harder on my golf than any of them I wouldn't ever apologise for a good 9 holes as I have had plenty of bad ones.

I then played in the 1st Sunday comp of the year this week and someone called me a bandit before I started. I shot 79 - 11 a nett 68 so there may be a trim of h/c and I plan to play in tomorrows medal.

As I say, a hip replacement at Xmas and lots of hard work is paying dividends but I do feel it's alright to win competitions, after all thats why we enter them, on the way to a handicap that, eventually, we can't win off.

Also, I personally have never played with anyone who appeares to have deliberately messed a round up so as not to get a handicap cut.

 

[SGC001]

Sorry, Couldn't DISAGREE MORE
They Are CHEATING
And they are Hurting Others.........By deliberately keeping their cards high, and to do that u would have to return these in Comps, these cards have a DIRECT effect on everybody else Playing in those Comps, effecting STANDARD SCRATCH for the Comp

I'm not disagreeing with you and I can see and understand your frustration, I'm not in favour of it and do believe it affects everybody else in the ways you have said. However, I still think it's different from writing a lower number down to win, kicking the ball out of trouble, placing when you shouldn't, not counting air shots, not applyin penalties appropriately etc:. It's not something I could've done when I was playing and still looked myself in the mirror.

Some do it, to compete with the other players doing that. There's some good prizes on offer when playing in some golf events which may be a little more to enter and it seems to me some people like to have an edge in these competitions or happy to walk away with a few matchplay / betterball or major comps.

I don't approve of false handicaps, but a slightly different example that I didn't mind when someone was villified for it came in a cricket world cup a while back.

The way the system worked meant that some results were carried over from the group stages to the next round so it favoured some teams to take time in winning a match or even losing a match to help them in the next round. I think the captains job was to win the world cup or whatever it's called not every match and that the rules were set out poorly allowing it to be an advantage to not win so well or even lose. I see that as the competition conditions fault not that of the captain of a team playing in it and as good captaincy. I'm in the minority on that view, but still hold it.

 

[pendodave]

Yes, but handicap golf IS cheating.

It allows golfers who haven't practiced as much, thought about their game as much, analysed their mental game as much, considered course management as much, made as appropriate equipment choices and done as much fiitness work to take the money/prizes from a better golfer who has taken the trouble to do all of the above..... ;-)

 

[gregbwfc]

Surely the whole point is to enjoy the game and do as well as you can.
I tend to have more fun when I play well.

 

[Monty_Brown]

Also, I personally have never played with anyone who appeares to have deliberately messed a round up so as not to get a handicap cut.

Me neither, but a few people no here say they've seen it done. I'm interested to hear how they did it. Is it obvious they have deliberately messed up with a weird swing or only obvious by the poor score on a couple of holes?

People do throw the bandit name around, but it's got to be taken in context.... only do it if you and the recipient know it's banter. And even then, I think doing it loudly in the bar in front of all and sundry is a bit off, as some bystansders may not know the circumstances and think it's a genuine slur. Mud sticks in some clubs.

If there's any chance it will be taken as an insult, steer clear...

 

[SGC001]

How do they mess up?

It depends on the player, hypothetically they may hit a driver where they shouldn't, take a club too much or too little and miss a green, then chip to 5 foot instead of 3 and miss where they may usually hole, leave it in the bunker or they may be less subtle and top one, thin one, fat one or slcie / hook it. Some may decide to dump comps mid round depending on how it's going to miss out on the buffer once there chance of winning is gone.

I would agree bandit is often referred to in a joking or even complementary manner if someone has had a good round and you know the bandit well enough.

 

[RichardC]

How do they mess up?

I played with a bloke once at my old club, and he was a 8 h/c. He was -2 his h/c for the front 9 and then heard a whisper that someone was -4 net for the front 9. He played a shot to the 11th par 3 and stuck it to 10" for birdie. I had already marked him down for a 2 when he DELIBERATELY shoved the putt 12" past. His exact words were "Im not making birdies and getting cut if im not going to win!!!"

I threw the card at him and walked off the course and reported him. He is still there now and probably doing the same thing.

 

[chrisd]

I played with a bloke once at my old club, and he was a 8 h/c. He was -2 his h/c for the front 9 and then heard a whisper that someone was -4 net for the front 9. He played a shot to the 11th par 3 and stuck it to 10" for birdie. I had already marked him down for a 2 when he DELIBERATELY shoved the putt 12" past. His exact words were "Im not making birdies and getting cut if im not going to win!!!"

I threw the card at him and walked off the course and reported him. He is still there now and probably doing the same thing.

Well done Richard! Takes some guts to do that

 

[Mattyboy]

Agree with all of this.

Also, depending on the standard of the really good players at your club, there is a handicap that you dont want to be! i.e. you are not good enough to win the scratch prizes and dont have enough shots to get the 45 points required to win the handicap!

'Shedding' is the term we use - when someone makes a soft bogey on the last to make sure they get that 0.1 back.