Cheats. Or not?

[Imurg]

There have been a lot of posts recently about the infringement of various rules and the one word that crops up regularly is "Cheat".

We seem very quick to brandish the tag around and the tag sticks - just ask Sandy and Monty!

Yes there are times when a minority deliberatly seek to gain advantage from breaking the rules and these are the cheats. But to break a rule - does that make you a cheat? If you know no better? Agreed you are breaking the rules but a cheat? I don't think so.

There was a post a few weeks back about a drop from casual water around a bush. The general consensus here was that the drop was illegal and "cheat" word was used. That's not cheating in my book. That's a misunderstanding of the rule and not a deliberate attempt to break it.

There is a difference between breaking a rule and cheating. I get the feeling that the "C" word being used as much as it is these days will lead to it being used in the clubhouse or on the course with interesting results!!

 

[madandra]

I know a few people who over the years have been DQ'd for different rule infringements that were all down to not knowing the correct rule but this is NOT CHEATING.

I also know a couple of guys who do things underhand that never get the punishment they deserve.


People KNOW a cheat but they never report them, they only ever confront someone who has made a genuine error of judgement.

 

[MarkS]

People KNOW a cheat but they never report them, they only ever confront someone who has made a genuine error of judgement.

thats a very intresting comment, and sadly i think you are right.

 

[Macster]

I'd bet a fair sum that the most common 'cheat' is finding a ball and playing it as if its your own.

I know of one chap at our place that is renowned for it, and has been reported for it, although its a tricky one to prove perhaps.

 

[snake]

The most common cheat i've discovered is manipulating your card with deliberate bad scoring in the last few holes inorder to increase your handicap prior to big comps.

This happened in the group i was in during the monthly medal.

The person in question was putting like a pro until the 15th, he had just been told a nett 63 had been posted, by a member cutting across the course, he proceeded to 4 putt from 4 feet on 15, 3 putt 16 from 5 feet, 17 from 12 and 18 from 20. When i commented that his putting went stone cold on him his reply was "no worries my handicap will go up for the club championship"

A cheat or am i being cynical??

 

[bobmac]

A cheat or am i being cynical??

Cheat. No question in my mind.
If I had been marking his card, I would refuse to sign it and explain to the relevant official why

 

[DCB]

I'm afraid the poor chap in this illustration is one of the growing numnber of players who shouldn't really be playing golf. To me golf is about challenging yourself to be as good as you can be against the course. That means improving ad trying to get your handicap down to as low a point as possible. As we get older and our game declines our handicaps do go up again, but trying to get your handicap up by playing like that is just not on.

I would certainly not sign the card and would report the actions of such a person.

 

[snake]

I did point it out to the club pro and asked for advice. I got this response, and i quote,

"can you prove it was deliberate? Cause if not, remember his son is on the committee and it might not go down to well"

I decided not bother as whats the point if the pro has that attitude.

I agree, i play only for handicap, i don't care about trophies (although one would be nice).My only target is single figures and beyond.

 

[Tommo21]

The most common cheat i've discovered is manipulating your card with deliberate bad scoring in the last few holes inorder to increase your handicap prior to big comps.

This happened in the group i was in during the monthly medal.

The person in question was putting like a pro until the 15th, he had just been told a nett 63 had been posted, by a member cutting across the course, he proceeded to 4 putt from 4 feet on 15, 3 putt 16 from 5 feet, 17 from 12 and 18 from 20. When i commented that his putting went stone cold on him his reply was "no worries my handicap will go up for the club championship"

A cheat or am i being cynical??

Not a cheat, a snake and should be reported if he said what he said. I would have no hesitation.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Its a hard one to prove and whilst it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth how do you actually prove some deliberately 3 or 4 putted. I agree there seems to be an increasing number of golfers that will either only show for the big events of handicaps that bear no resemblance to their skill level (usually clear up and disappear until the next biggie) or will protect their handicap to win prizes or clean up in the local sweeps.

I've come across out and out cheats (one guy had a hole in his trouser pocket and would drop a ball down the trouser leg and lo his stood on it while searching. He also played with two seniors (he was mid thirties) and they would always be 50 yards behind and so could never see what was going on. He got caught out as members had their suspcions and committee member followed him (different members on different holes) and several swa him drop balls. Suffince to say he never showed his face again.

Its the ultimate game of integrity and so if you can't face losing balls, playing badly and even the prospect of finishing last why not take up something else and leave it to those that have the games spirit in their soul

 

[snake]

i agree, buta 4 putt, 3 putts from 2 feet, one handed with the 4th only just staying in directly following the info about the club house leader should have at least raised an eyebrow from my club pro. Or so i thought anyway

 

[HomerJSimpson]

In my experience, the pro isn't actually part of the club per se and certainly not involved in the running of club competitions aprt from collecting the entry money and anding out the cards. Most pros I know find it a full time job trying not to get embroiled in club politics and so in theis case I think he was probably looking for a quiet life. He probably knows the score but you have to remember he needs to make a living and alienating the members is not a good move.

 

[snake]

as i said earlier i only wanted advice from him, i didn't expect to hear thinly veiled warning not to rock the boat. But i do concede your point about him wanting a quiet life.

 

[bobmac]

Not a cheat, a snake

Sorry Tommo, have to disagree.
Someone who adds shots to his/her score to keep his/her handicap falsely high is knowingly breaking the rules and is therefor a cheat.
Your handicap should relate to your playing ability.

 

[freddielong]

I would say that anyone who knowingly does something that is against the rules is a cheat, anyone else is not so clear cut. I would add that there is no excuse to not know the majority of the rules.

 

[Tommo21]

Not a cheat, a snake

Sorry Tommo, have to disagree.
Someone who adds shots to his/her score to keep his/her handicap falsely high is knowingly breaking the rules and is therefor a cheat.
Your handicap should relate to your playing ability.

I'll go along with that Bob.

 

[mancity101]

I'm afraid the poor chap in this illustration is one of the growing numnber of players who shouldn't really be playing golf. To me golf is about challenging yourself to be as good as you can be against the course. That means improving ad trying to get your handicap down to as low a point as possible. As we get older and our game declines our handicaps do go up again, but trying to get your handicap up by playing like that is just not on.

I would certainly not sign the card and would report the actions of such a person.

I agree, my theory has always been in a bar chatting to golfers you dont know,,,,,what says more about your ability
I play of 5/6/7 etxc...I have won 2 medals, and such and such a trophy...know what i prefer

 

[Herbie]

I think the common understanding of cheat, is where someone does something against the rules and know that they doing wrong.

However a cheat is really anyone who does wrong deliberately or not where they cheat others by their action or error.

Common sense in a reasonable mind will make a clear difference between those who are deliberate cheats and those who cheat by accident.

CHEAT....deceive or trick...gain unfair advantage by deception OR breaking rules, esp in a game or examination...avoid by luck or skill....divert attention from, beguile.
They are just some of the definitions, and there are more, calling someone a cheat is not always an offensive remark, but is nearly always taken as such.

eg...You inadvertantly posted the wrong score and by doing so you will cheat others out of.......

is perfectly ligitimate and innoffensive to say (if true) but most people would not use that language for fear of a punch up... Its not so much the word Cheat! more how it is used and who to.

Anyone who cheats deliberately I would find stronger words to describe them..lol

Anyone can become an accidental cheat, but only a very few are deliberate ones.