caught cheating?

[pokerjoke]

I recently caught a playing partner cheating,i nearly caught him previously but couldnt prove it,however this time i caught him red handed,he lost his ball or so he thought,however i found it but didnt tell him because i knew what he was going 2 do,he dropped another ball and played on.i didnt say anything as i was contemplating my move.on finishing the round i confronted him,of course he denied it i told him i was not signing his card.i did not report him but he tore his card up,he would have won the tourney wiv his score,bogey plus 7.i have not and will not play with him again.my question is why do players carry another ball in their pockets,for me there is no need as your bag is always by your side,i say dont do it,what do you say?

 

[Smiffy]

I always carry a spare ball in my left hand pocket as a "frightener" but ensure that it is a totally different one to the one I am playing, (different brand wherever possible), and will, on the first tee, let my playing partners know not only what ball I am playing with but also the brand and number of the "frightener".
I carry it to save time...some teeing areas are quite a way away from where you leave your bag or trolly.
I would have done exactly the same in your position, the only difference being I would have confronted him on the hole he carried the cheat out on once he had declared his score and therefore his intention to see the cheat through. I couldn't have carried on playing the round with him as I would have been too annoyed, and it would have affected my performanc unless I was on the 17th when it happened.

 

[Dodger]

I say do the honourable thing and have the balls to report him.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I can understand your annoyance. However there are times when I leave my trolley down the fairway (adjacent to the previous green) and so there would be a lot of time taken should I need to hit a provisional. I've always carried a spare in my pocket and so it has become the norm for me. That said my ball is clearly distinguishable between the one in play and the spare and its always a different number and usually marked with different coloured spots. I'm always fastidious to announce the ball I'm playing with to my partners and so it would be impossible for me to get away with dropping another.

If you have had your doubts before and have now witnessed and caught this guy cheating in my opinion you have a duty to report him. It may be that he'll try again in another competition and get away with it and win under false pretences. If you don't all that will happen is that he'll become even more devious. Also, it might be that the committee will, providing he is allowed to continue playing competitions, put him with either a comittee member or someone with a solid knowledge of the rules to prevent him even trying to repeat the offence.

I've spoken before of a low handicapper that use to play with two real old boys. He'd blast it but not always straight but no matter how far into the trees he went, by the time the old boys had played their balls and caught up he'd always have found it and would always have some kind of shot. There were the obvious rumours doing the rounds at the club and one day a committee member followed them at a distance and saw him do much the same thing as your guy. He was naturally D/Q'd and was surprised to see his 2nd place not counting. He of course denied it until it was explained he had been seen. I think he was banned from playingclub events for six months but funnily enough wasn't seen again anyway.

He had been playing off a pretty low handicap and was one of the sort that liked to large it up to work colleagues etc about how good he was. He managed to get caught out when the pro invited him to partner him in a pro-am. This guy knew he'd be found out that he couldn't really play to his handicap (to be fair he'd have been a reasonable 10-12) but the pro backed him into a corner. A few of us took the opportunity to go along which made him even more flustered beforehand. Lets just say I don't think he contributed a single point and never looked like breaking 90 let alone playing to his handicap.

This guy was the worse example I've met in 30 odd years of golf. There have been a few that I've had my doubts about but couldn't prove and there have been those that have used a so called lack of knowledge about the rules as an excuse. With the latter I'll usually give them the benefit but penalise them accordingly (certainly in a competition). At the end of the day for the most part its only about a few quids worth of pro vouchers, your name in gold letters and a small trophy and so I can never understand someone having to be that desparate to win

 

[SharkAttack]

Some higher handicap guys at my old club carried a spare ball in their pocket because quite a few tees were back from the previous green, so you left your bag beside the green and walked back to the tee. They kept one spare just in case the stuffed it out of bounds, it saved them walking back to get another. They always carried a different numbered ball so that there was no mix up.

Back to the other issue. You should report this as this guy will carry on doing it and probably win a few competitions until he gets caught and haulled before the committee. Remember you said that this was the second time, so think how many times he has did it before and not been caught.

 

[bobmac]

Sorry, you should have reported him and he should be thrown out of the club.
If you don't, he will carry on doing it with other players.
If the guy cant play honestly, he shouldn't play at all.

 

[Parmo]

I carry one because of trolly parks due to winter golf.

 

[CVG]

You should report this as this guy will carry on doing it and probably win a few competitions until he gets caught and haulled before the committee. Remember you said that this was the second time, so think how many times he has did it before and not been caught.

I totally agree, I also have the habit of carrying a spare ball in my left pocket, but as all the others at least a different number or a different brand. He should be named and shamed, our great game has no place for cheats.

 

[Parmo]

I'm not so sure about reporting him, at the end of the day he is just cheating himself and yes the odd comp, but I am not so sure how rocking the boat in a club and labelling someone a cheat will fair on everyone.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The point is though everyone else enters a club competition based on it being open and fair. If someone is deliberately cheating then in my opinion he's cheating the 40-70 (or however many entered) competitors and that makes it a club issue. Providing you are prepared to stand up and stand by what you saw and document it accordingly then I don't see the problem. Out of interest were you playing as a pair or in a 3/4 ball and did the others see the incident or did you tell them about your fears and then what you had seen. At least you'll have people to back you up.

 

[thecraw]

Be very careful what you do as the bottom line is that its his word against yours. You are the one who could end up with egg on your face as there are no witnesses other than you.

Its a question of who believes what!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

A very good point which is why I asked if the other players saw anything or the OP informed them of what had happened. Either way I'd still report it and then let the committee take it up from there. If they call you to give evidence then do so. Chances are they may deal with the matter themselves. I don't think the guy will get too bolshy in the clubhouse as mud sticks and so if you make his actions known, most, being golfers and therefore upholders of fair play, will at least look at him with an element of doubt. No smoke and all that

 

[Bigfoot]

He has to be reported. Don't let him get away with it.
I rarely carry a spare ball as it feels un-comfortable in my pocket. If on a course where I may be a long way from my bag, I take it out and leave it on the floor while I play the shot. It has meant that I lose a ball by forgetting to pick it up!!

 

[pokerjoke]

thku all 4 ur responses interesting reading.to answer most of your questions,we were playing singles,he no longer plays at the club he obviously cant face it as the commitee now know,however im sure hes doing it somewhere else.also he has a violent nature and i value my looks lol.as 2 the responce 2 carrying another ball i can understand if the tee is a long way from where you leave the bags,however carrying a spare all the time even if a different ball that i cant.thx again

 

[Macster]

I'd have done the same, and I'd definitely have reported him.

Footnote: To ALL of you that 'carry' spare balls in your pocket - I really dont think this is a good move, and leaves you WIDE open to all sorts of suspicion from anyone playing with you, surely ?
Apart from the fact that it reeks of 'negative thoughts' on your part ??
We have a couple of Tees that you have to walk back or up to, but I can honestly say that I have NEVER taken a spare ball up with me. Sure, occasionally I have had to re-load, but I think carrying a ball routinely in your pocket just reinforces your worries about bad shots.
And, as I say, might just raise a few eyebrows at times.....

Just my thoughts.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Never had a problem with it. As I said and I think Smiffy reiterated, both balls are more than clearly recognisable (different markingsn numbers or even make) and the ball in play clearly stated at the start of the round (or once the original has been lost). I think from the OP the guy in question was a habitual cheat anyway. I don't see how a spare ball is a problem especially on the rare rounds when the first ball is always in play anyway and so the other players don't even need to know its there

 

[drawboy]

quiet a few years ago the same thing happened to me whilst playing with a partner who I did not know well in an away day comp. He dropped a ball in the rough and winked at me. There and then I told him I did not want to play with a cheat and walked in.

 

[stevek1969]

I caught a guy doing it a few years ago in one of the pub outings he hit his ball in to the crap then playe his provisional then when he holed he claimed his provisional was his first , it got that bad it nearly came to blows and his two mates said to leave it. I was that angry i took his ball out the hole and smashed into the next field when we got back in i stood up and told everyone how much of cheat that tit was and it got a round of applause because he'd done it for years and no one said anything.

 

[Smiffy]

Footnote: To ALL of you that 'carry' spare balls in your pocket - I really dont think this is a good move, and leaves you WIDE open to all sorts of suspicion from anyone playing with you, surely ?

Nope.
Always done it, always will. In fact, it feels weird if I don't have a spare in my left hand pocket now.
As I stated in my earlier post....I make it quite clear to whoever I'm playing with that I am carrying a spare. I also make it quite clear what ball I am playing with, and also what ball my "frightener" is.
If they are still suspicious after that little lot I'll make sure I don't play with them again

 

[Herbie]

Why wait till the end of the round to address the issue?
If I catch someone red handed, I tell them there and then, and I inform them I will report them. If more people did this then golfers would be less likely to try it on any golf course for fear of immediate reprisal. Report him!

As for balls in pockets, I often have one in my pocket, its not intentional, but it has come in handy on odd occasions, if you have the feeling that its wrong, then perhaps you might be too much of a judge jury and executioner, people dont cheat because they carry an ball or two in their pockets, people cheat because they are cheats!